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From: Mikulas.Ferjencik<<a href="mailto:Mikulas.Ferjencik@seznam.cz">Mikulas.Ferjencik@seznam.cz</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9420.8200.26352-6334-1054688670-1290335865@seznam.cz">9420.8200.26352-6334-1054688670-1290335865@seznam.cz</a>><br>
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I take Chom's side in the debate.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure I do, but I'll tend to align against anyone who is derogatory towards what should be their natural base support, in this case young and committed activists seeking a effective praxis. Lest ye forget, the Pirate Parties (or PPI) are a subset of the Pirate movement and culture more broadly; a means that is still being tested for its efficacy. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Conventional politics is *a* tactic, with affordances and constraints, legal or otherwise. Unfortunately, the impression I've got from the 'respectables' here seems obsessively concentrated on 'lets differentiate ourselves as serious grown ups against these damn anarchistic children'. As a legal fig-leaf position, I'd have no argument, but the vehemence seems deeper. </div>
<div><br></div><div>What this affair illustrates to me would be the failure of Pirate Parties to be able to use, channel, or even be *mildly relevant to*, the wide base of disaffected people who share the base concerns and overall worldview of the Pirate movement. I don't know if this is a contingent phenomenon, or whether the archaic structure of party politics, and their derivatives, is a demographic and conceptual misfit to newer forms of decentralized horizontal organization. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Longstoryshort though: anyone whose explanation for complex events is 'ignorant kids', in my opinion, would be fencing themselves into a very limited and infertile worldview, especially if they would consider themselves leaders in any way of a political movement with a young demographic catch. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Tom Stewart</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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Firstly, I believe that the O-P was a PR success. I understand it might be different in the US and in Britain, However RIAA and MPAA equivalents are hugely unpopular in Europe, so hurting them is almost always good press.<br>
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Secondly O-P boosted morale of the regular pirate supporters. The corporations we are fighting against seem to be omnipotent and when a bunch of script kiddies (I mean no disrespect) takes their site down it naturally make pirates happy.<br>
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Lastly, I believe that diplomacy and manners both have their place in politics. If PPUS honestly wanted to contribute to ceasing the O-P they would word their letter differently.<br>
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If it was just an act of distancing themselves from the so called illegal activities, fair enough, however I strongly disagree with the claim that "O-P methods do more harm than good to the global effort" As long as it remains a popular movement I do not have any problem with its methods. Obviously it would be different if for example the PPI organised it, but I did not notice anyone connecting Pirate parties and O-P.<br>
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regards<br>
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Mikulas Ferjencik, vice president of the Czech Pirate Party<br>
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End of pp.international.general Digest, Vol 45, Issue 41<br>
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