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Well, to be honest, as a historian who is also interested (and
studying) political science this is all mightily interesting, but
shifts away the focus from what wikileaks is supposed to be doing.
It seems to be more part of a powerplay between Assange and the US,
but has little to do with whistleblowing.<br>
<br>
In this case I sorta agree with the former German spokesman of
wikileaks who said that, with stuff like that, wikileaks is sorta
losing the focus. It is undoubtedly still the most important
whistleblower side out there, but it becomes attackable doing stuff
liek releasing the cables. Some of them may be part of
whistleblowing, and I generally agree that the government (and
corporations) should be far more open and accessible, and
accountable, to the public. I don't think diplomacy is the most
important field in this, though (and this is also where the latest
leak differs from those with the documents from Iraq and
Afghanistan).<br>
<br>
Again, I don't want to take anything away from wikileaks, and think
the latest leak is very fascinating, It is not, however, actual
whistleblowing. It is just opening secrte documents to the public.
If all of those would be harming the public, it would be
whistleblowing. I think only a small fraction of those are really
beneficial for the public to know (like the one published today
about the Chinese statesman).<br>
<br>
cheers<br>
-J<br>
<br>
On 06.12.10 18:21, Jay Emerson wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTikRApMoVBC7TuHy9+5_mJzrXEiM465R6tKJUJFt@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Anybody notice how effective of a tool this
distraction of an issue has become in taking attention away from
the fact this is the biggest government leak since the Pentagon
Papers?<br>
<br>
Look at the contents, not the messenger, kthnxbai.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:35 AM, Justus
Römeth <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:squig@dfpx.de">squig@dfpx.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
Even if he committed that crime (according to Amelia it is
alleged rape, which in Sweden also includes not stopping sex
when the condom breaks), would that make all of wikileaks all
of a sudden criminal?
<div>
<div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
On 06.12.10 09:38, Aftermath wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
Also, I am not trying to spread Anti-Wikileak rubble or
anything like<br>
that. It's just that there's a lot of un-answered
questions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Julian Assange is currently wanted by interpol for an
alledged sex crime:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp"
target="_blank">http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Could it be a smear campaign by his enemies? Yes it
could. If true<br>
then we're talking about conspiratorial theory here.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, boboniboni boboniboni<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:boboniboni@gmail.com" target="_blank">boboniboni@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt
0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
That is why I would say Assange is being very
altruistic in this,<br>
maybe he is a real human hero. The future will tell.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Jay Emerson<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jemers2@gmail.com" target="_blank">jemers2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt
0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
We just offered our website (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nypirates.org" target="_blank">www.nypirates.org</a>)
to the cause of Mass<br>
Mirroring Wikileaks. As an activist, I have to say
that the amount of heat<br>
Assange knew he would get for something like this
HAS to be altruistic<br>
seeing as you're automatically in fear of your life
from essentially every<br>
NATO ally state. A million dollars but the minute I
spend it I could be<br>
capped by the CIA after being tailed? I call
"bullshit" on Aftermath,<br>
respectfully :-)<br>
<br>
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:33 PM, boboniboni
boboniboni<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:boboniboni@gmail.com" target="_blank">boboniboni@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Is Assange supposed to live a life based on hard
altruism? I think a<br>
reasonable and quick scientific analysis about
human behavior will say<br>
that every human being runs on mutualistic shared
goals (rational<br>
egoism) with a variable amount of altruism.<br>
<br>
I would find it surprising and pathological IF
Assange was allegedly<br>
doing this under a radical notion of metaphysical
hard altruism.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Aftermath<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aftermath.thegreat@gmail.com"
target="_blank">aftermath.thegreat@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Wikileaks does what it does for Profit.<br>
<br>
I say this because julian assange is the only
one who has access to<br>
the paypal donation account.<br>
<br>
No one knows how much is donated except for him.<br>
<br>
<br>
Wikileaks likes transparency for everyone except
themselves.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cryptome is way cooler.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Nicolas
Sahlqvist<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nicco77@gmail.com"
target="_blank">nicco77@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Forgot the link to Wikipedia:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juma_Khan_Hamdard"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juma_Khan_Hamdard</a><br>
<br>
- Nicolas<br>
<br>
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Nicolas
Sahlqvist<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nicco77@gmail.com"
target="_blank">nicco77@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Mixing the organisation Wikileaks with the
assault charge of Assange<br>
is<br>
not the best of ideas and treating it
differently could indicate that<br>
we<br>
don't really believe in the principle of
innocent until proven<br>
guilty..<br>
I tend to think it is important to make a
statement in support for the<br>
work Wikileaks does at the moment
considering how it is threatened. We<br>
could<br>
mention other organisations that works on
similar goals as you<br>
mention, but<br>
that part of the message would probably not
be noticed when all media<br>
talks<br>
about is Wikileaks.<br>
There are also other ways to support leaks,
by actively spreading<br>
leaks on<br>
the net. I seem to have this new hobby of
reading SECRET cables from<br>
Wikileaks and the corrupt governor (Juma
Khan Hamdard) of the Paktia<br>
province in Afghanistan caught my attention
so I updated his Wikipedia<br>
page<br>
with the following sentences:<br>
"In May 2007 he was forced to resign as
governor of Jowzjan when<br>
thousands<br>
demonstrated against him. Forces under his
command shot at<br>
demonstrators in<br>
the Uzbek town of Shibirghan, killing
thirteen and injuring more than<br>
thirty."<br>
"He is currently under investigations for
soliciting bribes from<br>
contractors by having them arrested at job
sites and held until the<br>
bribes<br>
were paid"<br>
And referenced to the Guardian quoting the
cable from Wikileaks:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/241681"
target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/241681</a><br>
I have to say that it was a very
satisfactory to save those changes!<br>
;)<br>
<br>
- Nicolas<br>
<br>
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Amelia
Andersdotter<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:teirdes@gmail.com"
target="_blank">teirdes@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
On 4 December 2010 19:03, Erik Lönroth<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:erik.lonroth@gmail.com"
target="_blank">erik.lonroth@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
... and would you support something that
adds a few words about the<br>
"whistle-blowers" ?<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
If anything should be supported it's
whistle-blowers. And it is my<br>
position as a Swedish Pirate Party member
and an incumbent Member of<br>
the<br>
European Parliament not to support a text
that blindly supports the,<br>
eh.<br>
Defendant or plaintiff? Defendant I guess,
in a case that has not<br>
even gone<br>
to court. Technically, there can't even be
defendant or plaintiffs in<br>
this<br>
case because they are only conducting a
preliminary investigation.<br>
<br>
Gosh, people are really sheep when they
fall for media manipulation,<br>
aren't they?<br>
<br>
/a<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
I removed that from my original text. I
would not mind adding it.<br>
<br>
/Erik<br>
<br>
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Erik
Lönroth<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:erik.lonroth@gmail.com"
target="_blank">erik.lonroth@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Amelia, is it your position as a
representative of the Pirate<br>
Party in<br>
Sweden and (soon) Member of the
European Parliament not to support<br>
this text?<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://openpad.me/m9av1kOVgs"
target="_blank">http://openpad.me/m9av1kOVgs</a><br>
<br>
<br>
/Erik<br>
<br>
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Amelia
Andersdotter<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:teirdes@gmail.com"
target="_blank">teirdes@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
On 4 December 2010 12:17,
Mikulas.Ferjencik<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Mikulas.Ferjencik@seznam.cz"
target="_blank">Mikulas.Ferjencik@seznam.cz</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
I would like to note, that PPI is
not supposed to issue Press<br>
releases, so<br>
it is more appropriate to prepare
a press release, which can<br>
separate PPs<br>
endorse. It would also be good to
include what do respective PPs<br>
do<br>
to<br>
support wikileaks.<br>
</blockquote>
The Swedish Pirate Party and myself
do not support Wikileaks as<br>
such,<br>
but<br>
leaking and leaking services in
general (including OpenLeaks,<br>
cryptome and<br>
the newly formed Serbian project for
leaks). We would like to see<br>
an<br>
inclusive statement that considers
the benefit over<br>
whistleblowers in<br>
general, and not a specific service
for this purpose.<br>
<br>
Wikileaks can certainly be
exemplified, but it is important
that<br>
they<br>
do not<br>
get to represent the entire leaking
community, and especially<br>
that<br>
they do<br>
not overshadow the brave men and
women who make sure the leaks<br>
get<br>
out there<br>
in the first place.<br>
<br>
Amelia Andersdotter<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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<br>
<br>
--<br>
Jay Emerson<br>
Administrative Officer<br>
New York Pirate Party<br>
<br>
"My user has information that could...that could
make this a free system<br>
again! No, really! You'd have programs lined up just
to use this place, and<br>
no MCP looking over your shoulder." - Tron<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Jay Emerson<br>
Administrative Officer<br>
New York Pirate Party<br>
<br>
"My user has information that could...that could make this a free
system again! No, really! You'd have programs lined up just to use
this place, and no MCP looking over your shoulder." - Tron<br>
<br>
<pre wrap="">
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____________________________________________________
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</pre>
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