<p>The international general mail list the last days is discussing meet and food consume.<br>
Those themes cross countries political borders. The last facts regarding suger cane ethanol plants and the Belo Monte Damm in Brazil that couses massive actions against human rights. As European companies profit from those projects and the Brazilian government approves I suggest to work out a petition for german and brasilian liquid feedback. What that means that pirates from two countries address the same issue from different angle I do not know but see that PPI should take an active function regarding it. Food and energy are transnational themes and so should it be discussed.<br>
Warm regards from the Pirate Cave,<br>
Fabricio</p>
<p>Sorry for the brevity - sent from my mobile. Meta regards!</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 23, 2012 7:59 PM, <<a href="mailto:pp.international.general-request@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general-request@lists.pirateweb.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Send pp.international.general mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general-request@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general-request@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general-owner@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general-owner@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of pp.international.general digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Artificial meat (Pat Maechler aka Valio)<br>
2. Re: Artificial meat (Marko Mitrovic)<br>
3. Re: Artificial meat (David Arcos)<br>
4. Re: Artificial meat (Marko Mitrovic)<br>
5. Re: Artificial meat (Pat Maechler aka Valio)<br>
6. Re: Artificial meat (Scott Elcomb)<br>
7. Re: Artificial meat (Gijs Overvliet)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:26:48 +0100<br>
From: Pat Maechler aka Valio <<a href="mailto:pirate@valio.ch" target="_blank">pirate@valio.ch</a>><br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Subject: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANyq0C=PO3nCeOev6bm7MRUi3yTLp7iK+UX9cPQ=<a href="mailto:TEccqsXFxA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">TEccqsXFxA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
This could be a real breakthrough technology!<br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E</a><br>
They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn<br>
<br>
Keep in mind that<br>
a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat production<br>
b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically<br>
questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell<br>
research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when<br>
they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals<br>
<br>
-pat<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:34:41 +0100<br>
From: Marko Mitrovic <<a href="mailto:archamond@gmail.com" target="_blank">archamond@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAFLoSqCcMXvNPJ50seEdAnMoWF03KiAsrS%2BzgiwEXEJQf4BR9A@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAFLoSqCcMXvNPJ50seEdAnMoWF03KiAsrS+zgiwEXEJQf4BR9A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.<br>
<br>
Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar<br>
mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Pat Maechler aka Valio <<a href="mailto:pirate@valio.ch" target="_blank">pirate@valio.ch</a>> wrote:<br>
> This could be a real breakthrough technology!<br>
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E</a><br>
> They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn<br>
><br>
> Keep in mind that<br>
> a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat production<br>
> b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically<br>
> questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell<br>
> research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when<br>
> they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals<br>
><br>
> -pat<br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:36:43 +0100<br>
From: David Arcos <<a href="mailto:david.arcos@gmail.com" target="_blank">david.arcos@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAFB-oW0hyURTxo3fuFxE4iwT4W8vkVdmrOf%2BwFpVy0tE4_EMpg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAFB-oW0hyURTxo3fuFxE4iwT4W8vkVdmrOf+wFpVy0tE4_EMpg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Related: <a href="http://imgur.com/ZR3Hy" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/ZR3Hy</a><br>
<br>
;)<br>
<br>
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Marko Mitrovic <<a href="mailto:archamond@gmail.com" target="_blank">archamond@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.<br>
><br>
> Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar<br>
> mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Pat Maechler aka Valio <<a href="mailto:pirate@valio.ch" target="_blank">pirate@valio.ch</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> > This could be a real breakthrough technology!<br>
> > <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E</a><br>
> > They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn<br>
> ><br>
> > Keep in mind that<br>
> > a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat<br>
> production<br>
> > b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically<br>
> > questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell<br>
> > research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when<br>
> > they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals<br>
> ><br>
> > -pat<br>
> > ____________________________________________________<br>
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> > <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20120223/5843c151/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20120223/5843c151/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:41:59 +0100<br>
From: Marko Mitrovic <<a href="mailto:archamond@gmail.com" target="_blank">archamond@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAFLoSqCOUBEf9wRp0ft-zk9jKRZsd-6ifdK4s9%2BAqdftonEE8w@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAFLoSqCOUBEf9wRp0ft-zk9jKRZsd-6ifdK4s9+AqdftonEE8w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Besides, what is exactly animal suffering? All life forms including<br>
humans eventually become food for some other life form. It's called<br>
life, not suffering.<br>
And many of livestock animals are with humans for so long that they<br>
would simply go extinct very fast if let back to wilderness. How is<br>
that ethical?<br>
<br>
Nothing compares to organic food. Cows grown on mechanical trees are<br>
not organic food, it's GMO :)<br>
<br>
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:36 PM, David Arcos <<a href="mailto:david.arcos@gmail.com" target="_blank">david.arcos@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Related: <a href="http://imgur.com/ZR3Hy" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/ZR3Hy</a><br>
><br>
> ;)<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Marko Mitrovic <<a href="mailto:archamond@gmail.com" target="_blank">archamond@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.<br>
>><br>
>> Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar<br>
>> mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Pat Maechler aka Valio <<a href="mailto:pirate@valio.ch" target="_blank">pirate@valio.ch</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>> > This could be a real breakthrough technology!<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E</a><br>
>> > They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Keep in mind that<br>
>> > a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat<br>
>> > production<br>
>> > b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically<br>
>> > questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell<br>
>> > research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when<br>
>> > they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals<br>
>> ><br>
>> > -pat<br>
>> > ____________________________________________________<br>
>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
>> ____________________________________________________<br>
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:21:00 +0100<br>
From: Pat Maechler aka Valio <<a href="mailto:pirate@valio.ch" target="_blank">pirate@valio.ch</a>><br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANyq0C=71C3hWx7-gxKv0+g8EqijYH=<a href="mailto:bhfFYi_d8FnPGJTytsg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">bhfFYi_d8FnPGJTytsg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
are we against GMO?<br>
I don't know; I haven't seen this in my party, but I think there's<br>
certainly at least one pirate party to be found that is against it.<br>
I know that there are several problems if you want to use GMO in some<br>
areas, and if you want not to use it in others (i.e. it creates a<br>
whole new dependency, because farmers are forced to buy new grain for<br>
each generation, as the grain has to use terminator genes)<br>
That argument is likely not the problem here as you just grow fat and<br>
muscular cells in a lab that can't reproduce.<br>
<br>
Also what do you mean when you say "and similar mumbo-jumbo"?<br>
There's a wide range how one can interpret that sentence :-P<br>
<br>
Given that there are GMO I find the idea of mandatory FLOSS like<br>
regulations intriguing<br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2010-September/007517.html" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2010-September/007517.html</a><br>
<br>
Of course: The idea would not be to let the livestock "back" into<br>
wilderness. That would be ridiculous. But it's not as if you could not<br>
reduce over-commercialized lifestock over a certain timespan.<br>
<br>
BTW: I think organic food has it's advantages, but also disadvantages.<br>
We could go into a long discussion here, but that was actually not my<br>
intention ;)<br>
<br>
-pat<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:42:20 -0500<br>
From: Scott Elcomb <<a href="mailto:psema4@gmail.com" target="_blank">psema4@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAEx-jsNstvtpw=<a href="mailto:Avfeuer3LgAA63eMaqPaP0p7f8D1qAMea6ww@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">Avfeuer3LgAA63eMaqPaP0p7f8D1qAMea6ww@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Marko Mitrovic <<a href="mailto:archamond@gmail.com" target="_blank">archamond@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.<br>
><br>
> Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar<br>
> mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.<br>
<br>
In general, I support most research into methods of sustainable human<br>
development while minimizing our impact on the planet. In GMO, I have<br>
serious concerns about the rush to market, the excessive application<br>
of "intellectual property" law and the lack of adequate, and thorough,<br>
testing.<br>
<br>
The question of it being "mumbo-jumbo" is key: Is it sound? Is it<br>
safe? More importantly, will it be rushed to market before being<br>
proved-so?<br>
<br>
Perhaps even more important, will the "IP" be used to help solve the<br>
worlds problems or will it be exploited simply for the financial<br>
benefit of a few stakeholders?<br>
<br>
--<br>
? Scott Elcomb<br>
? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca<br>
<br>
? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems<br>
? <a href="http://code.google.com/p/atomos/" target="_blank">http://code.google.com/p/atomos/</a><br>
<br>
? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada<br>
? <a href="http://www.pirateparty.ca/" target="_blank">http://www.pirateparty.ca/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:58:57 +0100<br>
From: Gijs Overvliet <<a href="mailto:govervliet@gmail.com" target="_blank">govervliet@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CADYaiO1MQycKEmBy=<a href="mailto:1rAWFxoyTrLOZspjYKHOssWr-9imi5GnQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">1rAWFxoyTrLOZspjYKHOssWr-9imi5GnQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
>From what I understand, pirates are not against GMO. However, in practice<br>
GMO's usually are patented, and pirates are against THAT.<br>
<br>
In this case, I wonder if it's even genetically modified. Surely it's<br>
modified, but genetically?<br>
<br>
Still, I'm not going to eat that meat...<br>
<br>
2012/2/23 Pat Maechler aka Valio <<a href="mailto:pirate@valio.ch" target="_blank">pirate@valio.ch</a>><br>
<br>
> are we against GMO?<br>
> I don't know; I haven't seen this in my party, but I think there's<br>
> certainly at least one pirate party to be found that is against it.<br>
> I know that there are several problems if you want to use GMO in some<br>
> areas, and if you want not to use it in others (i.e. it creates a<br>
> whole new dependency, because farmers are forced to buy new grain for<br>
> each generation, as the grain has to use terminator genes)<br>
> That argument is likely not the problem here as you just grow fat and<br>
> muscular cells in a lab that can't reproduce.<br>
><br>
> Also what do you mean when you say "and similar mumbo-jumbo"?<br>
> There's a wide range how one can interpret that sentence :-P<br>
><br>
> Given that there are GMO I find the idea of mandatory FLOSS like<br>
> regulations intriguing<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2010-September/007517.html" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2010-September/007517.html</a><br>
><br>
> Of course: The idea would not be to let the livestock "back" into<br>
> wilderness. That would be ridiculous. But it's not as if you could not<br>
> reduce over-commercialized lifestock over a certain timespan.<br>
><br>
> BTW: I think organic food has it's advantages, but also disadvantages.<br>
> We could go into a long discussion here, but that was actually not my<br>
> intention ;)<br>
><br>
> -pat<br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20120223/fe6e05cc/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20120223/fe6e05cc/attachment.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
pp.international.general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
<br>
End of pp.international.general Digest, Vol 60, Issue 37<br>
********************************************************<br>
</blockquote></div>