Hello,<div><br></div><div><div>Didn't say it was the same and didn't say the US had a national party. The fact remains that in more than one country (Spain) there are regional Parties that might want to join PPI as an ordinary member. If Kenneth or anyone else comes up with a statute amendment that would allow this without the "we would outnumber all y'all" problem ;) then I would support it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Jerry</div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Andrew Norton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ktetch@gmail.com">ktetch@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<div class="im"><br>
On 3/2/2012 8:40 AM, Jerry Weyer wrote:<br>
> Hello Kenneth,<br>
><br>
> I would support such a modification. The idea behind the 1 country 1<br>
> member rule was to avoid having 2 competing PPs from one country as a<br>
> member. I think this is now less of a problem than the one you<br>
> described! Spain is not the only country where it is a problem, look at<br>
> the US where we have more than one regional Pirate Party which should<br>
> also be able to join as ordinary member.<br>
<br>
</div>erm, not quite right. The US already has the system proposed, where a<br>
confederation of partiues form a whole. In the US there is *NO* national<br>
party, at all. Political parties are organised and recognised at the<br>
state level only, and thats where 99.9% of election law is based.<br>
<br>
as a result, there is no such thing as a national party at all, BUT<br>
there are national committees, which state parties belong to (and are<br>
generally considered to be the equivilent to a 'national party'. It<br>
would be that that joined PPI. So it's not the same at all.</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Plus with potentially 51 parties (50 states+DC) we would outnumber all<br>
y'all.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
><br>
> The only risk I see with that modification is that you might have<br>
> multiple voting members from one country. Imagine every regional and<br>
> local Pirate Party in Germany joining as ordinary member with full<br>
> voting rights. Do you have any proposal on how to avoid that?<br>
<br>
</div>Yes, keep it as it is, it's a national issue. PIRATA and pp-cat need to<br>
sort things out between them.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<div class="im"><br>
><br>
> If you propose an amendment make sure to do it before the deadline ;) If<br>
> you have a Pad where you prepare it let me know, I'd like to have a look :)<br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
><br>
> Jerry<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat">kenneth@pirata.cat</a><br>
</div><div><div class="h5">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Justus,<br>
><br>
> Yes, Galicia can't get ordinary membership with current statutes,<br>
> however, the situation in Spain is quite different of that in<br>
> Germany. It's closer to the one in Italy with PP-IT and PP-SudTirol.<br>
><br>
> At least 7 Spanish regions have a mother tongue different than<br>
> Spanish and represent a 40% of the Spanish population. That doesn't<br>
> happens in Germany.<br>
><br>
> We have 3 regions with a significative % of voters not feeling<br>
> Spaniards (or not so much) in Spain: Catalonia<br>
> , Vasque Country and Galicia. In a minor %, you have Asturias,<br>
> Navarra, Valencia and Balearic Islands, then you have the rest of 17<br>
> autonomous regions.<br>
><br>
> In Catalonia and Vasque country, over 55% of people votes always for<br>
> non-spanish parties, sometimes up to 65%.<br>
><br>
> The Spanish commies (IU, Izquierda Unida) fixed this by creating a<br>
> confederation: One party in Catalonia and it's brother outside it<br>
> (ICV + IU) and this is the model we're pushing forward in PP-CAT.<br>
> Most Spaniard commies vote happily to ICV in Catalonia, whilst most<br>
> Catalan commies vote ICV as well. Years ago, it was all IU. After<br>
> organizing like IU+ICV, commies increased a 50% its voters in Catalonia.<br>
><br>
> That is our idea: work together in International and state-wide<br>
> issues, and organize independently on each region whenever possible<br>
> (general elections are done region by regions in Spain, as in many<br>
> countries).<br>
><br>
> Samir (and I can't tell if Marcel as well) pointed out that we<br>
> should sort-out this situation in Spain. He proposed PP-ES to loose<br>
> its full membership status and urged PP-ES + CAT ( and now + GAL as<br>
> well ) to create an umbrella organization which would be the<br>
> full-member of PPI.<br>
><br>
> That would make sense, as PP-CAT is 3.5 times bigger than PP-ES,<br>
> it's a bit weird that they have full-membership status whilst we<br>
> simply can't.<br>
><br>
> There's a Spanish pirate for every 225000 Spaniards whilst there's a<br>
> Catalan pirate for every 9966 Catalans... Moreover, we have the only<br>
> 2 pirate representatives of Spain. On the last Spanish general<br>
> election (November 2011), over 90% of the Pirate votes were for<br>
> PP-CAT...<br>
><br>
> PP-ES has had several internal issues in the last years... It looked<br>
> like its new bureau was fixing it, but suddenly it fucked up and got<br>
> frozen again... Sadly, PP-ES hasn't taken profit of its potentiality<br>
> since 2006.<br>
><br>
> That's the key reason why new regional pirate parties arise in<br>
> Spain. Most of us aren't secessionists (PP-CAT has a % of<br>
> secessionists similar to that in Catalan society), we just try to<br>
> make our job in the most efficient possible way. Expect others to be<br>
> created as well over the next years if PP-ES donesn't fixes it's<br>
> statute and internal democracy issues (working on it since 2009...).<br>
><br>
> Forget about PP-CAT integrating into PP-ES, there's no way. Even if<br>
> PP-ES fixed its statutes and internal democracy issues, at least 50%<br>
> of PP-CAT members wouldn't be part of a Spanish party, and thinking<br>
> in election results, a huge % of we would decline the offering. So,<br>
> we need another way.<br>
><br>
> PP-CAT and PP-GAL are pushing for a Pirate Confederation in Spain,<br>
> to define basic rules for common candidatures (like EU parliament's<br>
> one), where PP-ES can have federated regional parties like Madrid,<br>
> Andalucia or whoever wants, whilst others can choose to become<br>
> members of the confederation, being PP-ES itself one of the<br>
> confederation members.<br>
><br>
> However, internal work in PP-ES is terribly slow, thus, if we can't<br>
> agree something before PPI's GA, we will probably propose an statute<br>
> modification, changing "country" for "territory", so, PP-CAT and<br>
> PP-GAL would be able to achieve full membership status.<br>
><br>
> This modification would ease the integration of parties PP-CAT and<br>
> PP-GAL into PPI, by PP-ES confirming that it's not going to present<br>
> candidatures/lead activity in these territories, and easing the<br>
> admission of new PPI members in places like Palestine,<br>
> Turkish-Kurdistan, Irak's Kurdistan and so on, which lack a state<br>
> but have completely independent politics of Israel, Turkey or Irak.<br>
><br>
> Would you like/support such a statute modification?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
><br>
> Kenneth Peiruza<br>
> Pirates de Catalunya<br>
> <a href="http://pirata.cat" target="_blank">http://pirata.cat</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 02/03/12 02:49, Justus Römeth wrote:<br>
>> Thank you for posting Lola! And thank you Pat, Lola and Thomas for<br>
>> doing a job 6 people were elected with 3 people!<br>
>><br>
>> One question: How could Galicia get ordinary membership, though?<br>
>><br>
>> And another would/could/should be: Is observer membership by the<br>
>> German state parties something PPI welcomes, or do you merely<br>
>> accept it (as there is a paralell with the situation in Spain)?<br>
>> How about local chapters (Pirate party of Hanover, pirate party of<br>
>> Frankfurt, ...)? Maybe this point merits discussion during the GA<br>
>> (in the unlikely event we run out of topics).<br>
>><br>
>> -J<br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 1:06 AM, Lola Voronina<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:lola.voronina@pp-international.net">lola.voronina@pp-international.net</a><br>
</div></div><div class="im">>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:lola.voronina@pp-international.net">lola.voronina@pp-international.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Fellow Pirates,<br>
>><br>
>> Enclosed is a link to the minutes of the last PPI board meeting:<br>
>> <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Board_Minutes_2012-02-28" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Board_Minutes_2012-02-28</a><br>
>><br>
>> We also updated the conference<br>
>> page: <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012</a>. The<br>
>> next PPI conference will take place in Prague on 14-15 of<br>
>> April. We are currently working on a program (here is a<br>
>> draft: <a href="https://ppi.piratenpad.de/ppi-conference-agenda" target="_blank">https://ppi.piratenpad.de/ppi-conference-agenda</a>) and<br>
>> invitations.<br>
>> If you want to submit any statute amendment or other proposal<br>
>> add it to the proposal<br>
>> page: <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012/Proposals" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012/Proposals</a> or<br>
</div>>> write to /<a href="mailto:board@pp-international.net">board@pp-international.net</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:board@pp-international.net">board@pp-international.net</a>>/.<br>
<div class="im">>><br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>> Lola Voronina,<br>
>> Chief Administrative Officer, Pirate Parties International<br>
>> International Coordinator, Pirate Party of Russia<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ____________________________________________________<br>
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
</div>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ____________________________________________________<br>
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
</div>>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
</div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
<div class="im">> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Jerry Weyer<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://jay.lu/" target="_blank">http://jay.lu/</a><br>
</div>> @jerryweyer <<a href="https://twitter.com/#!/jerryweyer" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/#!/jerryweyer</a>><br>
<div class="im">><br>
><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>- --<br>
Andrew Norton<br>
<a href="http://ktetch.co.uk" target="_blank">http://ktetch.co.uk</a><br>
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH <a href="tel:%5B%2B1-352-658-3824" value="+13526583824">[+1-352-658-3824</a>]<br>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)<br>
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - <a href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org/" target="_blank">http://enigmail.mozdev.org/</a><br>
<br>
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPUPngAAoJECjjuYTW3X5HwnwIAKFvjaYumuXZXQdKD8uXxpLt<br>
R6nV299MbHtwiTdvPKhaRavt1xv4cvha/Sa48i1la2ocdh/5K2fg/ijYydz8S3JW<br>
VLulzNf9QCFnCYtpWNtWxoy3LQ3BRt+LZfBrdlXbDnyxtWEOk6BKOYxpgZ07A1RM<br>
QucKAktDcbFvXZi6zB/NgJP4i7T4YtpZj6FpWoiV3cTPZ7UA2JaK6ImzHSRT6Q6f<br>
uBboMH0gAaVGkplzfUPxNJl6cCL7qCABQwSmYw5X2hjkWCFfeNHF9KvqUk9ubzbC<br>
9k6O1fuoHQBNXVHoL9TXMAfsaP+AbrYduLNUgjxpNvn7yMxZhSKnrhdERYnuJ8k=<br>
=67wv<br>
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><br><div>Jerry Weyer</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://jay.lu/" target="_blank">http://jay.lu/</a></div><div><a href="https://twitter.com/#!/jerryweyer" target="_blank">@jerryweyer</a></div>
<br>
</div>