Hi,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>The direct vote of people doesn't means that someone is a ppi member, but member of a pirate party.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Which makes it even more difficult to organize, even with eDemocracy ;)</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Jerry</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br><div>it's only a way to democratize it a little bit :)<br>
<br></div><div><br><br><font>Salut!</font> </div></div><br>Jerry Weyer <<a href="mailto:weyerjerry@gmail.com" target="_blank">weyerjerry@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<br><div>Hello,</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat" target="_blank">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi Jerry,<br>
<br>
IMO, the way to balance countries with many parties, big countries
with a lot of members and only one party and countries with few
members and 1 party would be a rule of double majority, kind of
senate + congress:<br>
<br>
- Congress: every pirate has 1 vote, it might approve everything by
(i.e.) 2/3 of votes.<br>
- Senate: 1 party, 1 vote, might approve everything by 2/3 or 3/4 of
votes. Where no member shares territory with another pirate party.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Interesting idea - however PPI only accepts Parties, not individuals as members. Also it would be very hard to organize conferences with individual members of all Pirate Parties ;)</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
If most pirate parties and most pirates want something, probably
they're right.<br>
<br>
If suddenly a country presented 20 regional parties that could
significantly affect the senate's vote, or we don't see any real
activity over there, we can just decline the admission as full
members and leave them as observers until they do something real (a
campaign, running for elections, & so on).<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That might just be the reasonable thing to do in short term: make the statute amendment you proposed and hope the GA is reasonable in accepting new members.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Jerry</div><div> </div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="im">
<br>
<br>
I must leave right now, if do you want to open a pad, I'll be glad
to participate.<br>
<br>
Regards!<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Kenneth</font></span></div><div><div><div class="im"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 02/03/12 14:40, Jerry Weyer wrote:
</div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="im">Hello Kenneth,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would support such a modification. The idea behind the 1
country 1 member rule was to avoid having 2 competing PPs from
one country as a member. I think this is now less of a problem
than the one you described! Spain is not the only country where
it is a problem, look at the US where we have more than one
regional Pirate Party which should also be able to join as
ordinary member. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only risk I see with that modification is that you might
have multiple voting members from one country. Imagine every
regional and local Pirate Party in Germany joining as ordinary
member with full voting rights. Do you have any proposal on how
to avoid that?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you propose an amendment make sure to do it before the
deadline ;) If you have a Pad where you prepare it let me know,
I'd like to have a look :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
</div><div>Jerry<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Kenneth
Peiruza <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat" target="_blank">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div><div><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi Justus,<br>
<br>
Yes, Galicia can't get ordinary membership with current
statutes, however, the situation in Spain is quite
different of that in Germany. It's closer to the one in
Italy with PP-IT and PP-SudTirol.<br>
<br>
At least 7 Spanish regions have a mother tongue different
than Spanish and represent a 40% of the Spanish
population. That doesn't happens in Germany.<br>
<br>
We have 3 regions with a significative % of voters not
feeling Spaniards (or not so much) in Spain: Catalonia <br>
, Vasque Country and Galicia. In a minor %, you have
Asturias, Navarra, Valencia and Balearic Islands, then you
have the rest of 17 autonomous regions.<br>
<br>
In Catalonia and Vasque country, over 55% of people votes
always for non-spanish parties, sometimes up to 65%.<br>
<br>
The Spanish commies (IU, Izquierda Unida) fixed this by
creating a confederation: One party in Catalonia and it's
brother outside it (ICV + IU) and this is the model we're
pushing forward in PP-CAT. Most Spaniard commies vote
happily to ICV in Catalonia, whilst most Catalan commies
vote ICV as well. Years ago, it was all IU. After
organizing like IU+ICV, commies increased a 50% its voters
in Catalonia.<br>
<br>
That is our idea: work together in International and
state-wide issues, and organize independently on each
region whenever possible (general elections are done
region by regions in Spain, as in many countries).<br>
<br>
Samir (and I can't tell if Marcel as well) pointed out
that we should sort-out this situation in Spain. He
proposed PP-ES to loose its full membership status and
urged PP-ES + CAT ( and now + GAL as well ) to create an
umbrella organization which would be the full-member of
PPI.<br>
<br>
That would make sense, as PP-CAT is 3.5 times bigger than
PP-ES, it's a bit weird that they have full-membership
status whilst we simply can't.<br>
<br>
There's a Spanish pirate for every 225000 Spaniards whilst
there's a Catalan pirate for every 9966 Catalans...
Moreover, we have the only 2 pirate representatives of
Spain. On the last Spanish general election (November
2011), over 90% of the Pirate votes were for PP-CAT...<br>
<br>
PP-ES has had several internal issues in the last years...
It looked like its new bureau was fixing it, but suddenly
it fucked up and got frozen again... Sadly, PP-ES hasn't
taken profit of its potentiality since 2006.<br>
<br>
That's the key reason why new regional pirate parties
arise in Spain. Most of us aren't secessionists (PP-CAT
has a % of secessionists similar to that in Catalan
society), we just try to make our job in the most
efficient possible way. Expect others to be created as
well over the next years if PP-ES donesn't fixes it's
statute and internal democracy issues (working on it since
2009...).<br>
<br>
Forget about PP-CAT integrating into PP-ES, there's no
way. Even if PP-ES fixed its statutes and internal
democracy issues, at least 50% of PP-CAT members wouldn't
be part of a Spanish party, and thinking in election
results, a huge % of we would decline the offering. So, we
need another way.<br>
<br>
PP-CAT and PP-GAL are pushing for a Pirate Confederation
in Spain, to define basic rules for common candidatures
(like EU parliament's one), where PP-ES can have federated
regional parties like Madrid, Andalucia or whoever wants,
whilst others can choose to become members of the
confederation, being PP-ES itself one of the confederation
members.<br>
<br>
However, internal work in PP-ES is terribly slow, thus, if
we can't agree something before PPI's GA, we will probably
propose an statute modification, changing "country" for
"territory", so, PP-CAT and PP-GAL would be able to
achieve full membership status.<br>
<br>
This modification would ease the integration of parties
PP-CAT and PP-GAL into PPI, by PP-ES confirming that it's
not going to present candidatures/lead activity in these
territories, and easing the admission of new PPI members
in places like Palestine, Turkish-Kurdistan, Irak's
Kurdistan and so on, which lack a state but have
completely independent politics of Israel, Turkey or Irak.<br>
<br>
Would you like/support such a statute modification?<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Kenneth Peiruza<br>
Pirates de Catalunya<br>
<a href="http://pirata.cat/" target="_blank">http://pirata.cat</a>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
On 02/03/12 02:49, Justus Römeth wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Thank you for posting Lola!
And thank you Pat, Lola and Thomas for doing a job 6
people were elected with 3 people!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One question: How could Galicia get ordinary
membership, though?<br>
<br>
And another would/could/should be: Is observer
membership by the German state parties something
PPI welcomes, or do you merely accept it (as there
is a paralell with the situation in Spain)? How
about local chapters (Pirate party of Hanover,
pirate party of Frankfurt, ...)? Maybe this point
merits discussion during the GA (in the unlikely
event we run out of topics).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-J<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at
1:06 AM, Lola Voronina <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lola.voronina@pp-international.net" target="_blank">lola.voronina@pp-international.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Fellow Pirates,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Enclosed is a link to the minutes of the
last PPI board meeting: </div>
<div> <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Board_Minutes_2012-02-28" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Board_Minutes_2012-02-28</a>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We also updated the conference page: <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012</a>.
The next PPI conference will take place in
Prague on 14-15 of April. We are currently
working on a program (here is a draft: <a href="https://ppi.piratenpad.de/ppi-conference-agenda" target="_blank">https://ppi.piratenpad.de/ppi-conference-agenda</a>)
and invitations.</div>
<div><span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">If
you want to submit any statute amendment
or other proposal add it to the proposal
page: </span><a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012/Proposals" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012/Proposals</a> <span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">or write
to </span><i style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"><a href="mailto:board@pp-international.net" target="_blank">board@pp-international.net</a></i><span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Lola Voronina,</div>
<div>Chief Administrative Officer, Pirate
Parties International</div>
<div>
<div>International Coordinator, Pirate Party
of Russia</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
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<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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<pre>____________________________________________________
Pirate Parties International - General Talk
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<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div><div class="im">
-- <br>
<br>
<div>Jerry Weyer</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://jay.lu/" target="_blank">http://jay.lu/</a></div>
<div><a href="https://twitter.com/#%21/jerryweyer" target="_blank">@jerryweyer</a></div>
<br>
</div></div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br><div class="im">
<pre>____________________________________________________
Pirate Parties International - General Talk
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</pre>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div><div class="im">
<br>____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div class="im"><div><br></div>-- <br><br><div>Jerry Weyer</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://jay.lu/" target="_blank">http://jay.lu/</a></div><div><a href="https://twitter.com/#!/jerryweyer" target="_blank">@jerryweyer</a></div>
<br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><br><div>Jerry Weyer</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://jay.lu/" target="_blank">http://jay.lu/</a></div><div><a href="https://twitter.com/#!/jerryweyer" target="_blank">@jerryweyer</a></div>
<br>