The saddest thing is that, precisely.<br><br>After all this time, they think that it's something <i>personal</i>; <b>It is a fact</b>, not all things were done all right <i>before</i>.<br><br><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
I tryed to reconciliate all the Pirates, with signifficant results: some
people can work amazingly well, but only if they ignore the ones who
are causing the trouble. I tryed, i promise, for all ways, to make
Daniel Riaño notice, that we respect him, his labour and his progresses
as a Pirate.<br></blockquote>
<br>We have now work to do, a different perspective and people who knows how to find solutions, when the problem is simplified, or they notice to find different solutions that the ones that we were contemplating at first.<br>
<br>Please lets end the thread. :)<br><br>I'll reclaim you that beer. :P<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/5 Kenneth Peiruza <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Even your CoA admitted some of my points here. <b>These aren't attacks, these are facts</b>.<div><br></div><div>
Can you please stop insulting people in every list where you are subscribed? </div><div><br></div><div>Again no arguments or evidences, just personal attacks as reply.</div><div><br></div><div><div><br><font>Salut!</font> </div>
</div><br>Daniel <<a href="mailto:danielrr2@gmail.com" target="_blank">danielrr2@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<div><div class="h5"><br><div>I feel a kind o indefension here. Kennet Peiruza goes on and on on his attacks against the Spanish PP in the PPI list at a pace that seems to prove he has got too much time on his hands, and everybody seems to find it OK, or at least he isn't asked to refrain to keep doing it. He can make it so personal as to drop my name once or twice in every other vitriolic email, or he can accuse the whole Spanish PP of "illegal activities" which is a very serious accusation. <span>But if I answer, then both of us get angry words asking us to refrain to post personal messages to the list, as if it doesn't matter who started this row of unsupported accusations and defamatory spam. What am I supposed to do? Is it OK if I reply a short reply, or I need to consider this thread as fire aimed in just one direction?</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Daniel</span></div><div><br>El 04/03/2012, a las 18:02, Kenneth Peiruza <<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat" target="_blank">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>> escribió:<br><br></div><div>
</div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
Daniel, don't make me laugh.<br>
<br>
Citing yourself 2 hours ago: "I already stop, and any effort from
your part not to keep bringing your political party issues to this
list will be most appreciated by all, I think.".<br>
<br>
1st point: I NEVER insulted you, however, you insult me on every
email you write.<br>
<br>
2nd point, can you tell me if I'm wrong in any of these statements
instead of insulting me?<br>
<br>
- The president you had 1'5 years ago, left the party.<br>
- PP-ES's drop the membership status of at least 200 members without
even a letter, which is mandatory by Spanish law. You simply removed
them from you database. Interestingly, most double-members of PP-ES
+ PP-CAT were drop away.<br>
- PP-ES's had some key members from the former board under
investigation, until your Court of Arbitration (CdG) resigned 2
weeks ago.<br>
- Your CdG's (CoA) president resigned mostly because she got rid of
some people's attitude, including yourself, Daniel Riaño.<br>
- Your former secretary deleted all emails from
<a href="mailto:secretario.jdn@partidopirata.es" target="_blank">secretario.jdn@partidopirata.es</a> after leaving the charge, deleting
plenty of evidence about his behavior.<br>
- You have terrible issues to verify who is really a PP-ES member
and who isn't.<br>
- You haven't confirmed PP-ES's PPI membership after 2 years (it was
never a point in any of your GA's, and your statutes say it must be
confirmed by GA)<br>
- You were unable to present to most elections, in fact you have
only presented twice out of more than 12, and the last electoral
law's reform made you unable to run even in Madrid, your stronghold.<br>
- At least 3 members of your former bureau have left the party in
the last 4 weeks.<br>
- A member of your former bureau was kicked away from the party by
handcrafting a resignation letter he never wrote neither signed.<br>
- Your former treasurer had its email spied by other bureau members.
You were also part of that bureau.<br>
- Your former bureau decided to violate your statutes by presenting
candidatures against what it says there (not everyone was a party
member 3 months before the call for election).<br>
- Your former bureau added new members to the bureau without any
election, against what your statutes say, again.<br>
- Your current bureau hasn't called for election to refill your
resigned court of arbitration (in less than 3 weeks), as your
statutes say.<br>
- Some members of your former bureau threaten us by saying that you
would run for election in Catalonia (hilarious threat, as you
couldn't even run for election in Madrid!)<br>
- TOP anti-RIAA lawyer in Spain (Josep Jover) got rid of your former
bureau.<br>
- Most members of PP-ES admit that your statutes are unpractical,
not to say dumb.<br>
- PP-ES has been trying to modify its statutes for 2 years.<br>
<br>
On the other hand:<br>
<br>
- We decide everything in horizontal way, with e-democracy.<br>
- We were the ones to run for an election in Spain.<br>
- We have helped you in every election were PP-ES has run. Even some
of your TV ads were ours.<br>
- We trained your people in Madrid in Spanish's election law to run
for the city hall, as we already had know-how about it.<br>
- We shared our contents so you could re-use it in your campaigns<br>
- We've given you legal advice in how to modify your statutes and
how to present a candidature.<br>
- We've given you contacts to save money in banner's printing<br>
- We've proposed you a confederation/stable bilateral agreements for
up to 19 months.<br>
- We've looked for candidates (and presented a bunch of them) to
help you run for election in Andalusia.<br>
- I personally gave advice to the Spanish pirates organizing
elections in Madrid and Andalusia.<br>
- 90.5% of Pirate votes in Spain are votes of Pirata.cat<br>
- We're almost 4 times bigger than you, in a quarter of time.<br>
<br>
<br>
Am I wrong in any of these statements? please, don't insult me, just
tell me in which points I'm wrong.<br>
<br>
Too many of your issues aren't just ugly things but illegal things.<br>
<br>
Man, if you want to work together, we'll be happy to do so, but
please, don't come here telling us that PP-ES is a cool thing when I
do talk regularly with many of your members/bureau members and we
all perfectly know the issues you have.<br>
<br>
We want a confederation umbrella-organization, not leaded by your
lack of internal democracy neither your dumb statutes, to hold
Spain's vote in PPI. We've been working for it for up to 2 years. Do
you want so?<br>
<br>
Fools hardly realize about who their enemies are.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Kenneth<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04/03/12 17:03, Daniel Riaño wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Justus,<br>
<br>
It is already months since the Spanish PP has being passing in
silence the insults, personal attacks, innuendos and all kind of
defamatory rhetoric we have been reading in the PPI lists coming
from the side of one single member of the PP CAT. Unlike this
individual, we, at the Spanish PP don't think the PPI lists are
the right venue to present our local pleas, to wash our laundry,
to comment about our internal issues or the personal issues with
pirates all over Spain, even less to do it unfairly with total
disregard for actual facts. <br>
<br>
Now, since this individual has got some predicament in the lists,
mainly due to his obsessed insistence on pushing his agenda
through this list at all cost (even at the cost of sidelining the
real issues of the PPI at the forecomign General Assembly in
Praha) maybe at this point some members of the PPI are truly
interested to know what's really going on among pirates in Spain
(and not just " what they think is being done wrongly at PPES").
If that's the case, I think the directory board of Spain's PP (I
am speaking for my self here) will no doubt find the time to
present a fair account of its position (but please mind that we
have our papers to finish and jobs to keep and things like that)
and we will be ready to answer all pertinent questions from all
you pirates.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/4 Justus Römeth <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:roemeth@gmail.com" target="_blank">roemeth@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Moin/hola/ahoi</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Instead of bringing up this topic in a number of threads, I
think it should be discussed on its own. Now, please don't
make any personal attacks. Instead, it would be nice if
Pirates from Spain that know the situation would fill the rest
of us in about what they think is being done wrongly at PPES,
how they see PP-CAT's and PP-GAL's positions towards this, if
they would be okay with forming an umbrella organization that
represents the various Spanish PPs towards PPI (and possibly
PPEU) or not, and stuff like that.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>I would in particular be interested in knowing whether
members of PP-CAT and PP-GAL would be interested in joining
PPES as well if PPES gets their problems under control (as
long as Catalonia and Galicia are not independent, anyways).</div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-J</div>
</font></span><br>
____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>____________________________________________________
Pirate Parties International - General Talk
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br></div></blockquote> </div></div></div><br>____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.terceraola.com" target="_blank">www.terceraola.com</a><br><br>