<div class="gmail_quote"><div>Hi guys, Im Galileo, from the CDG in Spain. Hope you forget my english. It's a looonng time i have not used it.</div><div><br></div><div>I have wanted to get into the list for a long time... but not for this. The reason i was not before is i'm in an exam period until11th March. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Hope next posts in that list woulb be more useful to the PPI and not of this kind.</div><div><br></div><div>What i'm going to reply is only a personal viewing of this hateful situation we have in Spain. So don't blame the actors, blame me. I have to say i must reply a lot of things knneth has posted 'cause i'm involved in a matter or other as a CDG member or an affiliate.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 12:21:34 +0100<br>
From: Kenneth Peiruza <<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>><br>
To: Daniel <<a href="mailto:danielrr2@gmail.com">danielrr2@gmail.com</a>>, Pirate Parties International --<br>
General Talk <<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>>, Junta<br>
Directiva Pirata <<a href="mailto:juntadirectiva@partidopirata.es">juntadirectiva@partidopirata.es</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Party Situation in Spain<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:bd5w6qiexpvskxgrh8wcxayi.1330946029414@email.android.com">bd5w6qiexpvskxgrh8wcxayi.1330946029414@email.android.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
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Even your CoA admitted some of my points here. These aren't attacks, these are facts.<br>
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Can you please stop insulting people in every list where you are subscribed??<br>
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Again no arguments or evidences, just personal attacks as reply.<br>
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Salut!Daniel <<a href="mailto:danielrr2@gmail.com">danielrr2@gmail.com</a>> escribi?:I feel a kind o indefension here. Kennet Peiruza goes on and on on his attacks against the Spanish PP in the PPI list at a pace that seems to prove he has got too much time on his hands, and everybody seems to find it OK, or at least he isn't asked to refrain to keep doing it. He can make it so personal as to drop my name once or twice in every other vitriolic email, or he can accuse the whole Spanish PP of "illegal activities" which is a very serious accusation.?But if I answer, then both of us get angry words asking us to refrain to post personal messages to the list, as if it doesn't matter who started this row of unsupported accusations and defamatory spam. What am I supposed to do? Is it OK if I reply a short reply, or I need to consider this thread as fire aimed in just one direction?<br>
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Daniel<br>
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El 04/03/2012, a las 18:02, Kenneth Peiruza <<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>> escribi?:<br>
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Daniel, don't make me laugh.<br>
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Citing yourself 2 hours ago: "I already stop, and any effort from your part not to keep bringing your political party issues to this list will be most appreciated by all, I think.".<br>
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1st point: I NEVER insulted you, however, you insult me on every email you write.<br>
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2nd point, can you tell me if I'm wrong in any of these statements instead of insulting me?<br>
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- The president you had 1'5 years ago, left the party.<br>
- PP-ES's drop the membership status of at least 200 members without even a letter, which is mandatory by Spanish law. You simply removed them from you database. Interestingly, most double-members of PP-ES + PP-CAT were drop away.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Wrong. There is a affiliatedepartment that is hard working with it. If you where on any list you should have received a mailing for knowing if you were interested in continuing. ÇNothing to do with double members as you say.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- PP-ES's had some key members from the former board under investigation, until your Court of Arbitration (CdG) resigned 2 weeks ago.<br></blockquote><div>The court has not resigned.. only two members. The others are doing what we can with the inmense quantity of work is entering. So take it easy. And remember, no one is guilty because there is an expedient in CDG, until the CDG says it.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Your CdG's (CoA) president resigned mostly because she got rid of some people's attitude, including yourself, Daniel Ria?o.<br></blockquote><div>Right in a 10% Kenneth. Ask her if you want. She had a lot of reasons, and is still sympathizer with pirata. She still goes to the madird reunions.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Your former secretary deleted all emails from <a href="mailto:secretario.jdn@partidopirata.es">secretario.jdn@partidopirata.es</a> after leaving the charge, deleting plenty of evidence about his behavior.<br></blockquote>
<div>Probe it. I will be pleased to get out a CDG case. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- You have terrible issues to verify who is really a PP-ES member and who isn't.<br></blockquote><div>AS i said before.. Affiliate Department has been build for that. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- You haven't confirmed PP-ES's PPI membership after 2 years (it was never a point in any of your GA's, and your statutes say it must be confirmed by GA)<br></blockquote><div>I don't know what this means, so accept this one. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- You were unable to present to most elections, in fact you have only presented twice out of more than 12, and the last electoral law's reform made you unable to run even in Madrid, your stronghold.<br></blockquote><div>
Forgot to say they had problems. You are not fair with it. Remember that if you plea stadistics games, i can handle it and return your numbers. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- At least 3 members of your former bureau have left the party in the last 4 weeks.</blockquote><div>our former(last) bureau? Which one? </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- A member of your former bureau was kicked away from the party by handcrafting a resignation letter he never wrote neither signed.</blockquote><div>As I said before.. probe it.. or present it as a CDG case. Not only say it. I'm not saying it is tue or wrong Kenneth. I say it is always said it, but nobody takes the probes to the cdg.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Your former treasurer had its email spied by other bureau members. You were also part of that bureau.</blockquote><div>Don't blame Riaño if you don't know how treasure' case is going. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Your former bureau decided to violate your statutes by presenting candidatures against what it says there (not everyone was a party member 3 months before the call for election).<br></blockquote><div>+1, so we have had a really transformation in pirata since then, because of that and more. You know it. But allways forget the new times.. only remains the past for all of you.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Your former bureau added new members to the bureau without any election, against what your statutes say, again.<br>
- Your current bureau hasn't called for election to refill your resigned court of arbitration (in less than 3 weeks), as your statutes say.<br></blockquote><div>False.. I said to prepare one election. I think is being done. The fact is that, <u>if i remember well</u>, i told them to do it after the 11'th March, for the reason i explained at the beginning. This doesn't goes agains statutes. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Some members of your former bureau threaten us by saying that you would run for election in Catalonia (hilarious threat, as you couldn't even run for election in Madrid!)<br></blockquote><div>Yes, and you (not you kenneth, all of you) act as a child in a playground with it, ever. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- TOP anti-RIAA lawyer in Spain (Josep Jover) got rid of your former bureau.<br></blockquote><div>Nothing to do with PIRATA, specially with the actual bureau. It is unnecesary to say it here. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Most members of PP-ES admit that your statutes are unpractical, not to say dumb.<br></blockquote><div>So we are having a work changing the dificulties. You have to know. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- PP-ES has been trying to modify its statutes for 2 years.<br></blockquote><div>With very different people. I think we are gonna take it this time. You known that nothing is like before, but you, with you Riaño's war, use to teke all the past-done events to have a good point. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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On the other hand:<br>
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- We decide everything in horizontal way, with e-democracy.<br></blockquote><div>+1 </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- We were the ones to run for an election in Spain.<br></blockquote><div>And we too </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- We have helped you in every election were PP-ES has run. Even some of your TV ads were ours.<br>
</blockquote><div>ok, nothing to say. But we had ads too. I respect that you were more prepared for the ads thing, but don't say we did nothing too. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- We trained your people in Madrid in Spanish's election law to run for the city hall, as we already had know-how about it</blockquote><div>As a camp? How they were trained. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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- We shared our contents so you could re-use it in your campaigns<br></blockquote><div>+1 </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- We've given you legal advice in how to modify your statutes and how to present a candidature.<br></blockquote><div>don't know, but +1 </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- We've given you contacts to save money in banner's printing<br></blockquote><div>??? XD </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- We've proposed you a confederation/stable bilateral agreements for up to 19 months.<br>
- We've looked for candidates (and presented a bunch of them) to help you run for election in Andalusia.<br></blockquote><div>We too. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- I personally gave advice to the Spanish pirates organizing elections in Madrid and Andalusia.<br></blockquote><div>Good for you. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- 90.5% of Pirate votes in Spain are votes of Pirata.cat<br></blockquote><div>Numbers.. allways numbers. If you want to give numbers.. tell statistically how it goes in each province we had. Not very different in real. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- We're almost 4 times bigger than you, in a quarter of time.</blockquote><div>Nothing to do. The matter is the result and the expectative in growing.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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Am I wrong in any of these statements? please, don't insult me, just tell me in which points I'm wrong.<br>
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Too many of your issues aren't just ugly things but illegal things.<br>
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Man, if you want to work together, we'll be happy to do so, but please, don't come here telling us that PP-ES is a cool thing when I do talk regularly with many of your members/bureau members and we all perfectly know the issues you have.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>The problem is not working together.. is Accepting it. If it is me, would be perfect. But you(plural) have serious problems in confronting, not another party, but specifically some persons.</div><div>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
We want a confederation umbrella-organization, not leaded by your lack of internal democracy neither your dumb statutes, to hold Spain's vote in PPI. We've been working for it for up to 2 years. Do you want so?<br>
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Fools hardly realize about who their enemies are.<br>
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Regards,<br>
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Kenneth<br>
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<br><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>After all, saying that I respect Kenneth, but I think this discussions are nothing to do with this list or the job it has to take.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
-- </blockquote></div>"Natural e Inconfundible :)"<br>"La informatica es una competición entre los ingenieros del software, que tratan de crear mejores programas a prueba de tontos; y el Universo, que trata de crear mejores tontos. Por ahora el Universo va ganando..."<br>