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I believe a political party is founded after a thorough analysis of the social and political situation of the area it is to operate in, with statutes crafted to identify the problems those who gather to found it considered prioritary, and describing the methodologies and structures they agree to operate under in order to achieve the best possible solution to these problems.<br><br>The best way to harness all the power and resources of our members is to reach consensus and have all of them working closely together on a voluntary basis on issues they can all believe in.<br><br>The worst possible way is to have a vote where 50,01% agrees on something and tries to work to achieve it while the 49,99% are at best only ignored, and at worst actively boycotting the majority. That way we import into the party dynamics the same troubles that haunt the representative political system of majorities and opposition that we all know serves us so well.<br><br>What we are talking about here and now, discussing whether we should clearly back the March 29th General Strike in Spain or not, considering that we had a vote which was 10 pro, 7 con, is whether we value consensus, with all it represents, or we prefer not to have debates at all and directly "democratically" vote a few minutes before we issue a statement according to the votes result.<br><br>Even more, having reached a decision either way, do we have enough back spine to stand by it and assume the consequences, or do we know we will change it anyway if our democratic decision does not please someone we would like to please as soon as not doing so might require some effort or make us endure some hardships?<br><br>Of course, it may prove hard for anyone to come up with a convincing argumentation if the decision has not been reached through spirited debate where arguments have been exposed and weighted, and all the fall-back you have is a few votes of advantage for one of the options.<br><br>There are an awful lot of things we still have to work out, trying to achieve consensus if possible.<br> <br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:39:34 +0200<br>From: squig@dfpx.de<br>To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Are there "good" and "wrong" Rigths?<br><br>Not sure what a political party should do. As for individuals, I fully support Dario's opinion.<div><br></div><div>Re direct democracy: It is a two-sided sword. I think getting gay rights for example accepted was made easier through representative democracy; look at Poland, where a majority of the people are still against gay rights (so living homosexually could be made illegal if Poland had a direct democracy). It is harder to protect minorities in such cases.<br>
Also, the majority of people in Europe in general is against the death penalty in principle. However, after a very cruel crime (think Marc Detroux) there might be a temporary majority to have him sentenced to death. A direct democracy is great, but it has it's own issues and problems we need to work out.<br>
<br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">2012/3/28 Rok Andrée <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rok.andree@piratskastranka.net">rok.andree@piratskastranka.net</a>></span><br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi!<div class="ecxim"><div><br></div><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span>Should we defend the right to NOT participate in a General Strike equally to the Right in participating in it?</span></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>To even pose such a question is to be against freedome of expression, though, opinion, belife etc. To say "You must strike as we are the good ones" is to deny all other beliefs and as such you are no different than a tyrant. You are asking if the fundamental human right, the freedom of expression, should be applied only selectively to the followers of the more powerful camp.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Now for the explanation.</div><div>First thing that has to be understood is that the "bad" people on the other side dont think they are "bad", they think they are justified in what they are doing. People supporting them also believe that supporting them is the right thing to do and that YOU, the people on strike are the bad people, the people in the wrong. And by alienating them you prove to them that they are right, that you are "bad".</div>
<div>So who is right? Well right is the one who wins, but that's besides the point. </div><div>Democracy was founded on this very basis, that a nation of people will never agree on any point completely. You have to accept that other people have different opinions that you will not always be able to change, and be the civilized person to allow them to have those opinions as they allow you to have yours.</div>
<div><br></div><div><div>To quote George Carlin (i'm paraphrazing, cant find the accurate quote)</div><div>Rights that can be taken away at any time are not rights but temporary privileges.</div></div><span class="ecxHOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>
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<br>Rok Andrée<div><div><a href="http://piratskastranka.net" target="_blank">Piratska stranka Slovenije</a> <font size="1">(Slovenian Pirate Party)</font></div></div><br>
<br><br></font></span><div class="ecxgmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On 28 March 2012 10:54, Francisco George <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:francisco.george@gmail.com">francisco.george@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
My question is for all fellow Pirates all over the world.<div><br></div><div>Do You think there is "good" and "wrong" rights under certain circumstances?</div><div><br></div><div>Let's take the General Strike that will take place in Spain tomorrow March, 29th</div>
<div><br></div><div>Should we defend the right to NOT participate in a General Strike equally to the Right in participating in it?</div><div><br></div><div>Or in the frame of such event should we condemn the people's right to not giving support to the event?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Personally I understand that both rights are equal and should be defended as strongly both of them.</div><div>The Human Rights don't make any distinction between "Wrong & Good" ones. Freedom & Rights are equals and none shoul prevail on the other one.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks a lot for your thoughts on that matter be cause here in Spain the dominant philosofy is "If you are not with me, you are against me" There is No</div><div>tolerance for a Neutral position.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best Regards</div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Francisco George</div><div>Press Officer PP-ES</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
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