<p>Yup. And that is a reason why they should give some evidence or keep it internal. At the moment this looks like random grudge with name calling.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 4, 2012 10:28 PM, "Justus Römeth" <<a href="mailto:squig@dfpx.de">squig@dfpx.de</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In the end this is an internal Spanish thing for now, as far as I am concerned...<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:07 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thijs.markus@piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">thijs.markus@piratenpartij.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hmm, let me nuance my statement in a way you cannot misunderstand.<br>
Re-analyse my statement about sabre duels keeping in mind the following<br>
definition:<br>
<br>
hu·mor (hymr)<br>
n.<br>
1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could<br>
not see the humor of the situation.<br>
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer<br>
skilled at crafting humor.<br>
3. The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical,<br>
incongruous, or absurd. See Synonyms at wit1.<br>
4. One of the four fluids of the body, blood, phlegm, choler, and black<br>
bile, whose relative proportions were thought in ancient and medieval<br>
physiology to determine a person's disposition and general health.<br>
5. Physiology<br>
a. A body fluid, such as blood, lymph, or bile.<br>
b. Aqueous humor.<br>
c. Vitreous humor.<br>
6. A person's characteristic disposition or temperament: a boy of sullen<br>
humor.<br>
7. An often temporary state of mind; a mood: I'm in no humor to argue.<br>
8.<br>
a. A sudden, unanticipated whim. See Synonyms at mood1.<br>
b. Capricious or peculiar behavior.<br>
tr.v. hu·mored, hu·mor·ing, hu·mors<br>
1. To comply with the wishes or ideas of; indulge.<br>
2. To adapt or accommodate oneself to. See Synonyms at pamper.<br>
Idiom:<br>
out of humor<br>
In a bad mood; irritable.<br>
<br>
Pay particular attention to Clause 2 of this definition when you try to<br>
re-interpret my statement. Understand your ineptness when it comes to<br>
clause 3, and learn, painstakingly, to deal with this. Not for me, but for<br>
yourself.<br>
<br>
As for your invitation to provide an answer: well, let the board and this<br>
Choms guy both go their own way, it seems that this is merely a dispute<br>
over the method of operation, not an ideological one. Clearly, when this<br>
much energy is spend fighting one another, you're helping our opponents.<br>
<br>
Not knowing much details (I aint reading the novella's you guys share with<br>
this mailing lis & I will personally shoot anyone who does (clause 2<br>
applies to this later statement as well)), but having faced somewhat<br>
similar character traits and disputes (inconclusive so far), I would say<br>
the core of the issue is this: One guy thinks he's superman and demands to<br>
do much more than he's capable off and then, after he has worked his ass<br>
off, but failed to deliver the promised quality, gets people anger for<br>
that. Then there is a board who writes nice and very wordy texts about the<br>
affair but generally doesn't take on much work or risks, because they know<br>
that wouldn't advance their personal 'carreer'.<br>
<br>
So let superman fly solo, and tell the board to do something more usefull<br>
than talking things over and writing paperwork. That said, I still much<br>
prefer a sabre duel for it's superior entertainment value.<br>
<br>
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:05:35 +0000, Antonio Garcia <<a href="mailto:ningunotro@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ningunotro@hotmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<div><div>> That is one of the problems we have to face when we respect the freedom<br>
of<br>
> everyone, Thijs. When too many are not wise enough to behave in a<br>
civilized<br>
> way, either you manage to have peace bowing to every individuals wishes<br>
and<br>
> you try to do almost nothing that might start a debate, or you agree to<br>
> behave according to certain rules and have structures to enforce them<br>
when<br>
> necessary.<br>
><br>
> As long as everyone is not educated enough to behave wisely and in the<br>
> groups interest, you can but choose to have the structure that will<br>
allow<br>
> you to achieve your goals and live according to your ideals.<br>
><br>
> If it takes only one rotten apple to make you wish all stfu and settle<br>
> things in sabre duels, it doesn't seem like you might have the much<br>
needed<br>
> answer.<br>
><br>
> This kind of problems is going to surface over and over again, and<br>
> eventually feed underlying rivalries and antagonisms until everything<br>
> explodes, unless we learn how to deal with them and have the much needed<br>
> patience their solution requires.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:26:54 +0200<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:thijs.markus@piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">thijs.markus@piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> CC: <a href="mailto:coa@pp-international.net" target="_blank">coa@pp-international.net</a>; <a href="mailto:board@pp-international.net" target="_blank">board@pp-international.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who<br>
>> insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.<br>
>><br>
>> Ya the old dillemma, do you want a bunch of stuffy board members who<br>
>> bother to write a long email in semi-legaleze or some guy who has far<br>
too<br>
>> much to proof to ever be an effective team player? How about you both<br>
>> stfu<br>
>> and settle this as gentlemen in an honest sabre duel.<br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:19:00 +0200, Choms <<a href="mailto:choms@botmania.net" target="_blank">choms@botmania.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> > Always the same lies, most of those points are rebated on the<br>
pastebin<br>
>> that<br>
>> > probably members of PPES reported to get deleted, and now its<br>
uploaded<br>
>> on<br>
>> > my own server at <a href="http://botmania.net/rs.txt" target="_blank">botmania.net/rs.txt</a> so I won't rebate them again.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If any particular member has any particular question I'll answer it<br>
>> without<br>
>> > problem.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I have proofs of absolutely all statements I say, and I have no<br>
>> > problems<br>
>> > with sharing it deleting all personal data susceptible of spanish<br>
>> > legislation, I've always defended transparency.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > But the only point I'm not going to allow is the one who say that<br>
I've<br>
>> been<br>
>> > one year "fucking up" the party, because in the last year I've done<br>
>> > more<br>
>> > than the most of PPES members, the fact is actually PPES have a<br>
working<br>
>> > infrastructure because I configured the servers and services.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > But well, what can I expect from the PPES board? obviously they will<br>
>> always<br>
>> > defend their territory even if it imply lying or deleting party's<br>
>> members.<br>
>> > On Apr 4, 2012 6:57 PM, "Francisco George"<br>
<<a href="mailto:francisco.george@gmail.com" target="_blank">francisco.george@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> Dear Pirates,<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike<br>
have<br>
>> >> been<br>
>> >> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his<br>
>> real<br>
>> >> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later).<br>
>> Choms<br>
>> >> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to<br>
>> >> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed<br>
>> >> in<br>
>> >> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to<br>
the<br>
>> >> PPI,<br>
>> >> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain<br>
>> false.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement<br>
>> concerning<br>
>> >> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists<br>
>> seem<br>
>> >> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is<br>
>> echoed<br>
>> >> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying<br>
to<br>
>> >> give<br>
>> >> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this<br>
>> >> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex<br>
>> >> affiliate<br>
>> >> and his intentions towards PP-ES<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside<br>
>> >> Pirata<br>
>> >> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To<br>
mention<br>
>> >> only<br>
>> >> some of them:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he<br>
>> launched<br>
>> >> an unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the<br>
affiliates.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff<br>
>> without<br>
>> >> giving any explanations for doing so.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to<br>
>> >> fulfill any role during several weeks before.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the<br>
voting<br>
>> >> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting<br>
>> process.<br>
>> >> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the<br>
>> >> voting<br>
>> >> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not<br>
>> >> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast<br>
doubts<br>
>> >> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same<br>
>> system<br>
>> >> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he<br>
>> >> himself<br>
>> >> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the<br>
current<br>
>> and<br>
>> >> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not<br>
>> >> prickly<br>
>> >> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with<br>
the<br>
>> >> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called<br>
>> "You<br>
>> >> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and<br>
>> >> directed<br>
>> >> to<br>
>> >> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less<br>
is<br>
>> >> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to<br>
twitter,<br>
>> >> etc) full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories<br>
>> >> about<br>
>> >> Spain's Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his<br>
>> >> tweets, giving his side of the stoty in twitter:<br>
>> >> <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/Choms" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/#!/Choms</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been<br>
>> >> threatening<br>
>> >> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of<br>
legal<br>
>> >> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal<br>
threads<br>
>> >> was<br>
>> >> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in<br>
a<br>
>> >> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both<br>
>> >> designations<br>
>> >> together is a crime, in his case.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Now, the situation is that the Comité de Derechos y Garantías<br>
(CdDyG,<br>
>> >> the<br>
>> >> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to<br>
ask<br>
>> >> for<br>
>> >> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a<br>
>> person<br>
>> >> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned<br>
>> >> doings<br>
>> >> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group),<br>
>> >> and<br>
>> >> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the<br>
>> same<br>
>> >> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board<br>
(with<br>
>> no<br>
>> >> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General<br>
Assembly,<br>
>> >> that<br>
>> >> means, by all the affiliates.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for<br>
>> >> theirsuspension<br>
>> >> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to<br>
>> >> temporary<br>
>> >> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure<br>
in<br>
>> his<br>
>> >> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms<br>
has<br>
>> >> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the<br>
>> Directory<br>
>> >> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will<br>
>> >> dismiss<br>
>> >> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to<br>
>> >> send a<br>
>> >> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by<br>
>> >> themselves.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take<br>
>> >> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume<br>
>> this<br>
>> >> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst<br>
>> >> trolls<br>
>> >> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board<br>
in<br>
>> >> the<br>
>> >> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> PP-ES National Board<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> ____________________________________________________<br>
>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> ____________________________________________________<br>
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
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<br></blockquote></div>