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I suggest to change the direction of this thread since it is not the
point of this subject to discuss if it's true the global heating
it's a fact or not, but whether we are going to do something about
enviromental issues (setting this issue as one of our priorities for
example) as political movement.<br>
<br>
I do believe there is a global heating created or <span
id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps">aggravated
by humans. And as someone said before, it results that fighting
against global heating reducing CO2 emissions, not only helps to
this fight but helps to live in a healthier enviroment to any
criature. <br>
<br>
If there is someone who doesn't believe in global heating, well,
reducing </span></span><span id="result_box" class="short_text"
lang="en"><span class="hps">poisonous</span> <span class="hps">gases</span></span><span
id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps"> </span></span>that
everyone is breathing still it's a nice thing to work on. Isn't it?<br>
<br>
There are lots of renewable
resources that are not exploted at their full potencial since it's
not good for huge corporations, there are patents of 'green' engines
that won't see the light again because of economic interests, and so
on. The list is endless. We are a radical option of change, aren't
we? Someone said to create a task force about this or that was in
the other thread about economics? Either way I think that's a good
option. <br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Isabel Fernandez<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 18/05/12 11:30, Charly Pache wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEpeb+ATZ3TqUfNXUmBd1sDOz1o-6dAb4rXMXD0hc5=0-WG8Uw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Man made global warming is an hypothesis as well, even
the IPCC report says it, that there is no final proof, no 100%
certainty but just that it is very likely the reason. I already
posted all the links and information that cast doubts about this
man made global warming hypothesis and I just tell that we should
not stop researching the other possible causes, like sun
fluctuation, and we have to be open minded towards these other
scientists and researchers, who often have more to loose as to win
in not accepting the main stream vision of global warming.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Justus
Römeth <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:squig@dfpx.de" target="_blank">squig@dfpx.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I do not need to do anything, I just do not see you engaging
in this conversation with anything but hypthetical talking
points.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, IF we find out that CO2 has nothing to do with
global warming (or we cannot stop it anyways), IF global
warming is more of a concern than running out of fossil
fuels and the growing ozone layer and IF our resources
regarding those issues are severly limited we are betting on
the wrong horse trying to reduce CO2 emission. Those are
three pretty big IFs, I don't think arguing with these
hypotheses as the main starting point makes a lot of sense,
and frankly I do not understand why you think it does, other
for the sake of arguing and going against the majority, or
for not having to change a convenient lifestyle.
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:15
AM, Charly Pache <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:charly.pache@gmail.com"
target="_blank">charly.pache@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Why do you need to tell i'm childish and that my
argument are weird? Be factual, don't make any
subjective statement please. <br>
<br>
As for the resources, there are not so many brains
really working on these issues worldwide on an
everyday basis (450 lead authors and ~800
contributing authors worked on the last IPCC
report).
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 18, 2012 at
11:07 AM, Justus Römeth <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:squig@dfpx.de"
target="_blank">squig@dfpx.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Now you just sound childish while making up
hypothetical scenarios that suit your weird
arguments, tbh. If our resources were that
strained we'd be f'cked either way. This is
not a Roland Emmerich movie!
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:41 AM,
Charly Pache <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:charly.pache@gmail.com"
target="_blank">charly.pache@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
The argument is that human kind has
a limited amount of energy, resource
and time and it's better to put
focus on the most efficient ways of
reaching our goal. In a limited
world, we have to prioritize and
yes, these two things could be
mutually exclusive if we realize we
have to put all your resources in
one solution or the other. So my
argument is an argument, definitely.
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri,
May 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM,
Justus Römeth <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:squig@dfpx.de"
target="_blank">squig@dfpx.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
As others have stated,
reducing CO2 emissions is a
worthy goal even if they are
not responsible for global
warming. At the same time we
have to plan for the
scenario that we will not be
able to stop global warming
whatever we do, and act
accordingly. Those two
things are not mutually
exclusive, so your argument
is not really an argument at
all.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Fri, May 18,
2012 at 10:14 AM,
Charly Pache <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:charly.pache@gmail.com" target="_blank">charly.pache@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
No, it was just
insinuating that i'm
ignorant that i
didn't like, and
transforming my
words to let think i
said something i
never said.<br>
<br>
One last thought
about this topic.<br>
<br>
Imagine one day, in
let say 20 years, we
realize the main
cause of the global
warming was not C02,
but sun fluctuation.
<br>
<br>
And that we suddenly
realize that during
the last 20 years we
took measures to
cut-off C02
emissions and that
these heavy measures
didn't stop global
warming at all cos
in fact, we didn't
analyse toroughouly
the topic at the
beginning and we
blindly accepted for
granted the C02
theory, even if we
didn't have all the
necessary data. <br>
<br>
That's dangerous.
Because then will
realize we lost 20
years into looking
for other solutions,
like this one [1] or
these ones [2][3],
in the case the sun
would be the cause.<br>
<br>
Take care, warm
thoughts ;) Charly<br>
<br>
[1] Obama climate
adviser open to
geo-engineering to
tackle global
warming: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/08/geo-engineering-john-holdren"
target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/08/geo-engineering-john-holdren</a><br>
[2] Geoengineering
experiment cancelled
amid patent row
(15th May 2012!,
please note that
climate engineering
is not yet allowed
under international
law): <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nature.com/news/geoengineering-experiment-cancelled-amid-patent-row-1.10645"
target="_blank">http://www.nature.com/news/geoengineering-experiment-cancelled-amid-patent-row-1.10645</a><br>
[3] A (not so
up-to-date) list of
geoengineering
patents filed by
many private
corporations (and i
didn't say it's bad,
if situation on
Earth will be
unbearable, we will
have to raise the
issue): <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/patents.html"
target="_blank">http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/patents.html</a>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Fri, May 18,
2012 at 4:43
AM, Richard
Stallman <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rms@gnu.org" target="_blank">rms@gnu.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Re-read my
messages
please, I
never said
there is no
global warming
going<br>
on, on the
contrary, we
argued here on
whether it was
really man
made or<br>
natural,
like it could
be assumed as
the other
planets in our
solar system<br>
get warmer
as well. And I
never said 4°C
in Switzerland
is the proof
that<br>
there is no
global warming<br>
<br>
</div>
By mentioning
it in this
discussion,
you presented
it as relevant
to<br>
the issue. If
you misspoke,
you can say so
and people
will disregard<br>
that apparent
meaning. But
don't
criticize
people for
responding for<br>
what you
appear to say.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
--<br>
Dr Richard
Stallman<br>
President,
Free Software
Foundation<br>
51 Franklin St<br>
Boston MA
02110<br>
USA<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsf.org" target="_blank">www.fsf.org</a> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.gnu.org" target="_blank">www.gnu.org</a><br>
Skype: No way!
That's nonfree
(freedom-denying)
software.<br>
Use Ekiga or
an ordinary
phone call<br>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Isabel Fernandez
PGP EA63DF8E
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.piratasdegalicia.org">www.piratasdegalicia.org</a></pre>
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