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Just getting independent of unreliable and troublesome energy
sources like Russian gas and Arab oil would be enough for me to
switch from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources.<br>
<br>
Not to say about improving our import-export balances. The
technology is there, we aren't talking about promises neither
switching from black to white in 5 years, we're talking about
reaching REAL changes in a short period of time. Like 50% of clean
primary energy sources by 2025.<br>
<br>
Right now, Spain is producing 10% of it's energy with renewable
sources, and 11% of its electricity with wind power. Wind power is
(as stated by US dpt. of Energy) significantly cheaper than nuclear
power, and below market-prices. The cheapest source is advanced
combined cycle, which will increase its price in the next years, as
it's based in fossil fuels.<br>
<br>
Another approach is the Danish one, a very smart policy that has
dropped a 10% of energy consumption every decade, since the 70's.<br>
<br>
So, which should be a smart energy policy?<br>
<br>
Moving towards wind power + other affordable renewable sources +
energy efficiency + promoting smart energy and smart cities +
electric vehicles + take advantage of energy production peaks +
keeping some of the production through cheap-non-renewable sources
like combined cycle, that can be started and stopped almost
immediately, so they can balance the fluctuation of renewable
sources.<br>
<br>
Spain is able to produce 100% of its electricity through the usage
of only renewable + advanced combined cycle, but political pressures
re-started our carbon generation and keep our nuclear power working
at full throttle. There could be some debate about nuclear power,
but the carbon thing is just unacceptable, as it's more expensive
and the worst in CO2 and pollution.<br>
<br>
In fact, Spain has enough combined cycle stations to power 85% of
the highest consumption peak ever.<br>
<br>
The problem with increasing renewable energy production is not
technological but political: why should we need to invade Iraq or
keep Tyrants in oil-producers and why should we buy so much weaponry
if we aren't afraid of oil and gas imports? what would be US
business model if control of oil production rendered useless?<br>
<br>
Remember that almost half of the 7 biggest media groups worldwide
belong to defense companies, and they control 70% of TV, radio and
newspapers.<br>
<br>
In the US, at least 3 million citizens depend directly or indirectly
of the industrial military complex + US army, and that industry is
mostly used to keep control over oil production and distribution
worldwide.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards!<br>
<br>
Kenneth<br>
<br>
Al 18/05/12 11:20, En/na Justus Römeth ha escrit:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACWaH_AVp_ib9FB-f9BK80tEhPdkWGeqWwmPL-Z1jshwo6Jmrw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">I do not need to do anything, I just do not see you
engaging in this conversation with anything but hypthetical
talking points.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, IF we find out that CO2 has nothing to do with global
warming (or we cannot stop it anyways), IF global warming is
more of a concern than running out of fossil fuels and the
growing ozone layer and IF our resources regarding those issues
are severly limited we are betting on the wrong horse trying to
reduce CO2 emission. Those are three pretty big IFs, I don't
think arguing with these hypotheses as the main starting point
makes a lot of sense, and frankly I do not understand why you
think it does, other for the sake of arguing and going against
the majority, or for not having to change a convenient
lifestyle.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:15 AM,
Charly Pache <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:charly.pache@gmail.com" target="_blank">charly.pache@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Why do you need to tell i'm childish and that my argument
are weird? Be factual, don't make any subjective statement
please. <br>
<br>
As for the resources, there are not so many brains really
working on these issues worldwide on an everyday basis (450
lead authors and ~800 contributing authors worked on the
last IPCC report).
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:07
AM, Justus Römeth <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:squig@dfpx.de"
target="_blank">squig@dfpx.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Now you just sound childish while making up
hypothetical scenarios that suit your weird
arguments, tbh. If our resources were that strained
we'd be f'cked either way. This is not a Roland
Emmerich movie!
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Charly Pache
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:charly.pache@gmail.com"
target="_blank">charly.pache@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The argument is that human kind has a
limited amount of energy, resource and time
and it's better to put focus on the most
efficient ways of reaching our goal. In a
limited world, we have to prioritize and
yes, these two things could be mutually
exclusive if we realize we have to put all
your resources in one solution or the other.
So my argument is an argument, definitely.
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 18,
2012 at 10:35 AM, Justus Römeth <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:squig@dfpx.de"
target="_blank">squig@dfpx.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
As others have stated, reducing CO2
emissions is a worthy goal even if
they are not responsible for global
warming. At the same time we have to
plan for the scenario that we will
not be able to stop global warming
whatever we do, and act accordingly.
Those two things are not mutually
exclusive, so your argument is not
really an argument at all.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Fri, May 18, 2012 at
10:14 AM, Charly Pache <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:charly.pache@gmail.com"
target="_blank">charly.pache@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
No, it was just insinuating
that i'm ignorant that i
didn't like, and
transforming my words to let
think i said something i
never said.<br>
<br>
One last thought about this
topic.<br>
<br>
Imagine one day, in let say
20 years, we realize the
main cause of the global
warming was not C02, but sun
fluctuation. <br>
<br>
And that we suddenly realize
that during the last 20
years we took measures to
cut-off C02 emissions and
that these heavy measures
didn't stop global warming
at all cos in fact, we
didn't analyse toroughouly
the topic at the beginning
and we blindly accepted for
granted the C02 theory, even
if we didn't have all the
necessary data. <br>
<br>
That's dangerous. Because
then will realize we lost 20
years into looking for other
solutions, like this one [1]
or these ones [2][3], in the
case the sun would be the
cause.<br>
<br>
Take care, warm thoughts ;)
Charly<br>
<br>
[1] Obama climate adviser
open to geo-engineering to
tackle global warming: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/08/geo-engineering-john-holdren"
target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/08/geo-engineering-john-holdren</a><br>
[2] Geoengineering
experiment cancelled amid
patent row (15th May 2012!,
please note that climate
engineering is not yet
allowed under international
law): <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nature.com/news/geoengineering-experiment-cancelled-amid-patent-row-1.10645"
target="_blank">http://www.nature.com/news/geoengineering-experiment-cancelled-amid-patent-row-1.10645</a><br>
[3] A (not so up-to-date)
list of geoengineering
patents filed by many
private corporations (and i
didn't say it's bad, if
situation on Earth will be
unbearable, we will have to
raise the issue): <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/patents.html"
target="_blank">http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/patents.html</a>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Fri, May 18, 2012 at
4:43 AM, Richard
Stallman <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rms@gnu.org" target="_blank">rms@gnu.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> Re-read my
messages please, I
never said there
is no global
warming going<br>
on, on the
contrary, we
argued here on
whether it was
really man made or<br>
natural, like
it could be
assumed as the
other planets in
our solar system<br>
get warmer as
well. And I never
said 4°C in
Switzerland is the
proof that<br>
there is no
global warming<br>
<br>
</div>
By mentioning it in
this discussion, you
presented it as
relevant to<br>
the issue. If you
misspoke, you can
say so and people
will disregard<br>
that apparent
meaning. But don't
criticize people for
responding for<br>
what you appear to
say.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
--<br>
Dr Richard
Stallman<br>
President, Free
Software
Foundation<br>
51 Franklin St<br>
Boston MA 02110<br>
USA<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fsf.org" target="_blank">www.fsf.org</a> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.gnu.org" target="_blank">www.gnu.org</a><br>
Skype: No way!
That's nonfree
(freedom-denying)
software.<br>
Use Ekiga or an
ordinary phone
call<br>
</div>
</div>
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