<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span>Simon,</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Thanks for your opinion. I will defend differing opinions to my death. And thanks for adding to my list of people who will always be shown an open.</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="background-color: transparent;"><span>My previous list
of </span>messengers who are welcome to join with their <span style="background-color: transparent;">ideas, and be</span><span style="background-color: transparent;"> included participation and vote...</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Facists</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Monarchists</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Communists</span></div><div
style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Socialists</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Radical Women</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Unionists</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Democrats</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Republicans</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Libertarians</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Lyden LaRouchians</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span>Ron Paulites</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style:
normal;"><span>Thanks for your list below. I will encourage them also to join...</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-style: normal;"><span> </span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">conspiracy theorists</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">Social Democrats<br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">Green Fascists </span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif;
font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">National Anarchists<br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent;"><span><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">member of another Party</span><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent;"><span><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">new members if they feel they don't agree our platform</span></span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;"><span><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york',
times, serif;">hijackers</span></span></div></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">impersonators</span><br></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">mass-joiners<br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">parasites<br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">organised </span><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">take us over </span><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size:
12pt;">attempters</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">hate filled venom </span><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">injectors</span><br></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">what they thought in the past<br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">those who have been refused by other parties</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span
style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">To which I will add these to my list of people who have a welcome door, open to join this pirate's party.</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">Those who firmly believe in Free Speech</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">Those who have read GETTING TO YES<br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">Those who think there can be Peace on Earth in Eighteen Months</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif;
font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;">Those who want an end to all wars</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px;">I remain sincerely yours,</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent;
font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px;"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent;"><span style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: italic;">John Dickinson</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px;"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18px;">=access Since 1991 <br>"Be the change that you want <br>to see in the world." <br>M. K. Gandhi
</span><br></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div> <div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Simon Frew <simon.frew@pirateparty.org.au><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> john dickinson <jrdickinson@yahoo.com>; Pirate Parties International -- General Talk <pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:45 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [pp.int.general] PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div id="yiv623615381"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Between that centre right guy and the weird conspiracy theorists, I wish Italian Pirates the best of luck!<br><br></div>Italian politics really is bizarre. Tell us all how it goes.<br><br></div><div>
<div>We have a few conspiracy theorists and a dodgy ex-politician in our Party, thankfully they don't have any real influence. We have been warned about the ex-politician by his former comrades.<br><br></div><div>There is a tradition of Marxist groups and Social Democrats mass-joining, hi-jacking and destroying emerging movements here in Australia. Being aware of this we built some defences into our Constitution. People aren't allowed to be a member of another Party and the National Council has the right to refuse new members if they feel the member doesn't agree our platform or organisation. In part we had to exclude members of other Parties to make sure we were OK to register. We have had to refuse a few people who are members of other Parties, they just liked us, and weren't an organised attempt to take us over.<br>
<br></div><div>I have seen Fascists try to impersonate and hijack a range of different movements, including Green Fascists and National Anarchists. Seems to be a strategy to attach themselves like a parasite and inject their hate filled venom into growing movements, they also seem to universally fail. I hope the tradition of failure continues.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Of course, people can change and what they think now might have nothing to do with what they thought in the past. From the Google translations of those articles I assume that is not the case.<br>
<br></div><div>Other than Carlito's claims I don't see anything undemocratic in how Italian Pirates are running things. Maybe a few things could be done better, but who couldn't say that?<br><br></div><div>Cheers<br>
<br></div><div>Simon Frew<br></div></div></div><div class="yiv623615381gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="yiv623615381gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 7:01 AM, john dickinson <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jrdickinson@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jrdickinson@yahoo.com">jrdickinson@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv623615381gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif;"><div><span>Zbrigniew,</span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:garamond,;">
<span><br></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:garamond,;"><span>Please don't advise me to set a filter if I am not interested. It should be obvious, I am very interested in et al. I will read et al waiting for issues of outside the party to resume.</span></div>
<div class="yiv623615381im"><div></div><div> </div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,;font-size:18px;">I remain sincerely yours,</span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:garamond,;">
<span style="font-family:garamond,;font-size:18px;"><br></span></div><div style="font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:garamond,;"><span style="font-family:garamond,;font-size:18px;font-style:italic;">John Dickinson</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:garamond,;"><span style="font-family:garamond,;font-size:18px;"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:garamond,;font-size:18px;">=access Since 1991 <br>"Be the change that you want <br>to see in the world." <br>M. K. Gandhi </span><br></div><div>
<br></div> </div><div style="font-family:garamond,;font-size:12pt;"><div class="yiv623615381hm yiv623615381HOEnZb"> </div><div style="font-size:12pt;">
<div class="yiv623615381hm yiv623615381HOEnZb"> </div><div dir="ltr"><div class="yiv623615381hm yiv623615381HOEnZb"> </div><font face="Arial"><div class="yiv623615381hm yiv623615381HOEnZb"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Zbigniew Łukasiak <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:zzbbyy@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:zzbbyy@gmail.com">zzbbyy@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> john dickinson <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jrdickinson@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jrdickinson@yahoo.com">jrdickinson@yahoo.com</a>>; Pirate Parties International -- General Talk <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:25 AM</div><div class="yiv623615381im"><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [<a target="_blank" href="http://pp.int.ge/">pp.int</a>.general] PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization<br>
</div></font> </div><div><div class="yiv623615381h5"> <br>
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 7:41 PM, john dickinson <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jrdickinson@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jrdickinson@yahoo.com">jrdickinson@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Dear et al,<br>><br>> Sure, I will reply to this message. This domination of the email list with<br>
> name calling and accusations does nothing to advance the cause of Pirates,<br>> unless the purpose of this list is to establish the reputation of Pirates as<br>> bickerers.<br>> I am new to the party, but I have been a pirate since the '60's, an honest<br>
> pirate in the true definition of the word.<br>> I joined WAPP, and after two meets decided to form another party. Without<br>> saying anything disparaging except that I could not say the acronym out<br>> loud, I wanted to use my resources to get members to the causes that I<br>
> thought were important and urgent. Following this list (I read everything) I<br>> feel that the important causes have
been placed on a shelf to be replaced by<br>> bickering.<br>> I formed the Seattle International Pirate Party, and I am embarking to<br>> encourage towns, communities and neighborhoods to form their own Parties. I<br>
> fly the flag on a half mast, verses the flag flying at half mast, to<br>> indicate that the cause is above the mast of my thoughts and opinions. I<br>> don't want to move the flag down so that it flies at half mast and then move<br>
> it out of my life because I might feel embarrassed by the petty/public<br>> attacks against others. I have a goal to gain 2o,ooo members in the next six<br>> months.<br>><br>> ? Is there a way to keep the bickering out of the public view? probably not.<br>
> I guess I am just ranting, but perhaps everyone should read Getting To Yes<br>> before self destruction.<br><br>I actually believe that this bickering as you describe it has a<br>purpose. The meaning of the word
democratic and above all Pirate<br>Party is far from being obvious and we need to discuss it before we<br>form something that could be called our consensus. If we don't reach<br>a consensus in these matters then sooner or later it will bring<br>
troubles - because you cannot have an organisation without identity<br>without defining what is acceptable and what is not.<br><br>It is true that this discussion could be done in a better looking way<br>- but it is better when it happens then when it did not, even if that<br>
means this public bickering. I hope people can set filters to their<br>mailboxes to filter it out if they are not interested.<br><br><br>--<br>Zbigniew Lukasiak<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/">http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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