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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Oh my.<br><br>I guess you think you do your party a service with this one.<br><br>It is insofar self-explanatory to anyone with more than two neurons in his craneal cavity... that I won't pull myself down to your level commenting.<br><br>Have a nice day.<br><br><br>Antonio.<br><br>> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:28:38 +0100<br>> From: kenneth@pirata.cat<br>> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia<br>> <br>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:10 +0000, Antonio Garcia<br>> <ningunotro@hotmail.com><br>> wrote:<br>> > It's very hard to achieve... as long as you insist on being the pain in<br>> > everybodies ass.<br>> > <br>> > And it seems you run out of rational arguments real soon and have to<br>> > resort to emotional crap and populist bulshit.<br>> ><br>> <br>> IMO, it's not us who refer to emotional crap, but you, Antonio.<br>> <br>> For someone being a member of PP-ES's bureau (with just 2 votes but a<br>> bureau member), your behaviour is simply unacceptable. I can't imagine what<br>> kind of blubber would you do at PP-ES if I ever called you half of what you<br>> call me in one single day.<br>> <br>> We've stated plenty of logical and practical arguments about why not<br>> belonging to PP-ES, however, your hate to Catalan people simply blinds your<br>> mind. I know you have personal traumas with catalan people (is it true that<br>> your brother died whilst he had a Catalan girlfriend? ), probably that's<br>> the real point behind your hatred, and nothing else really matters.<br>> <br>> We had explained several times strong logical arguments, based on the<br>> sociology of the Catalan society and its preferences for political options.<br>> Just a brief reminder of some of the key points:<br>> <br>> 1) Key figures of PP-ES were former members of Spanish-Nationalist<br>> conservative Party (Partido Popular), the heir of Franco's fascist<br>> dictatorship, and from a radical Spanish-nationalist NPO. That's simply a<br>> suicide in a Catalan election, where less than 9% of the population votes<br>> that party, and more than 80% openly admits that they HATE that party. So,<br>> it's illogical to run for election with PP-ES in Catalonia, right?<br>> <br>> 2) Catalan population is 55% in favour of Independance and 35% against.<br>> 73% of Catalan voters voted for a Catalan party in the last elections, both<br>> secessionists and unionists. The remaining 27% of vote was shared between<br>> the Spanish Social Democrats (PSOE) and Spanish Conservatives (PP), with a<br>> campaign budget of above 4M €. Even people against independence is<br>> massively voting a Catalan-unionist party (Ciutadans). So, Catalan people<br>> prefers to vote for a Catalan party, no matter if they are secessionists or<br>> unionists or neither. Should we run for elections as Partido Pirata and<br>> fight for PP and PSOE's voters? just for you to know, PP/PSOE voters have<br>> an average age above 60 years old: illogical to try to get into that<br>> market, right?<br>> <br>> 3) Decentralization of decision making and organization has been shown the<br>> most successful way for Pirates to succeed in big countries. So far, just<br>> PP-DE did so, and they have a decentralized model that PP-ES refuses to<br>> accept at all. In fact, PP-ES forbid its members in Catalonia to have a<br>> website in Catalan language three years ago, because "maybe we will not be<br>> able to understand what its written in the website!". That paranoia and<br>> control requirements are unproductive and burn volunteers.<br>> <br>> 4) We (the confederacy members) believe that all we must be free to choose<br>> whatever we want whenever it's not against the pirate ideology. I hope we'd<br>> be able to agree on this point, otherwise you're just a totalitarian<br>> fascist and there's nothing else to deal.<br>> <br>> <br>> 5) Last time PP-ES made a poll about if PP-ES might run for election in<br>> Catalonia, 97% of your members voted that they prefered us to run for<br>> election in Catalonia instead of PP-ES (I guess everyone but Pedro Gracia<br>> xDDD, because there was just 1 vote against it). So, isn't it illogical to<br>> act against the desires of your own people?<br>> <br>> 6) Just for your information, PP-CAT was created with all the former<br>> Catalan members of PP-ES but one (10)+ 25 guys that didn't wanted to belong<br>> to a Spanish party (you know, those weird Catalan guys!!!). Only one member<br>> of PP-ES didn't joined us, and that's the one who cooperated with the<br>> DELETION OF MEMBERS FAVOURABLE TO A PERMANENT AGREEMENT WITH PP-CAT. This<br>> has been demonstrated by the former president and treasurer of PP-ES<br>> (Ultano Peña and Amparo Peiró), after realizing that "The Pedros" even<br>> deleted one bureau member that had it's membership fee paid until 2014. I<br>> was also deleted by them, and Ultano apologized for such a thing (which was<br>> not his fault at all, as he became the president 1 year afterwards). Just<br>> for the record, the guys who deleted "annoying people" were Pedro Gracia<br>> and Pedro Montmany, whilst Francisco George was supporting them, 2 PP-ES's<br>> bureaus ago.<br>> <br>> 7) Some facts: we grew from 0 to > 1000 in 2 years, you shrinked from 2007<br>> to date. We do stuff, you don't, we keep on growing, you keep on shrinking.<br>> You attack us, we ignore you, you don't let your assembly to vote on topics<br>> some people (the 4 trolls, you included) don't like, we let anyone to open<br>> a vote on anything which is not against human rights. And people keeps on<br>> leaving your party and joining the pirate confederacy... Logically<br>> speaking, who's demonstrating a more productive, healthy, transparent and<br>> democratic behaviour? yes, we do.<br>> <br>> <br>> And now just for fun :)<br>> <br>> Thank you for forwarding my yesterday's email to your own party's mailing<br>> lists, maybe your comment saying that anyone who still wished to become a<br>> member of the confederacy must be killed by impalement wasn't appropiated,<br>> however, you only behave in that way, even in your own party, so I can<br>> understand it.<br>> <br>> You got some replies, and looks like anyone but the 4 typical PP-ES trolls<br>> agreed with most of my points: you are a troll, and we<br>> (PP-CAT/GAL/EXT/RIO/MAD Confederacy) are the only ones doing stuff in<br>> Spain, whilst PP-ES does nothing. Even someone from PP-ES stated that your<br>> activity last year was just 1 single post in your blog, which is terribly<br>> sad to see. Then... again logicaly speaking... can you teach us anything at<br>> all but how not to work?<br>> <br>> Please, analyze yourself a little bit before blaming/insulting other<br>> people. You will find what almost everyone else can see even in your party:<br>> your "überlogic" sucks.<br>> <br>> I know you have a big image of yourself, that you believe that you're very<br>> clever, far above the rest of us. Please, let me tell you something, you<br>> überman, come back to real world: we've plenty of people in the<br>> confederacy, and a lot of them have IQs above 140. We don't agree on many<br>> things, but we do it on the Pirate things and on something else: you might<br>> have some kind of serious mental problems for your behaviour, your<br>> misogynia and for still being 48 years old and still virgin, and/or that<br>> you're payed by someone to sabotage the pirate movement in Spain.<br>> <br>> And another thing... I'm an IT guy, you know it, but I was also one of the<br>> top Spanish students of my promotion and I won the bronze medal in the<br>> Chemistry Olympiad. That sounds too much conceited for my taste, but IMO<br>> you deserve a reality bite.<br>> <br>> So... even if you were übersmart, I don't feel impressed by you at all.<br>> One of the best things I've learned in my life is to be humble, because<br>> even the most insificant and illiterate countryman knows things that I<br>> don't know, and makes plenty of things way better than I do. Think about<br>> it, it has plenty of logic :) Otherwise, we'll keep on thinking that you're<br>> grotesque.<br>> <br>> PS: honour damage is a punishable fault under Spanish law, and when a<br>> fault/offence is done with political motivation, that enters under<br>> terrorism law. Motivators face up to 7 years in jail, with no penalty<br>> reductions. This mailing list's archive is publicly accessible and indexed<br>> in search engines. Guess who's gonna be contacted to go to court for<br>> calling people bribbers, thieves, blackmailers and so on soon if he doesn't<br>> stop acting like a moron :)<br>> <br>> If you have some REAL logic, you'll be able to know who :)<br>> <br>> <br>> Have a nice and logical day,<br>> <br>> Kenneth<br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br> </div></body>
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