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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>You have a weird sense of logic and ethic, my "friend".<br><br>I do not need to propose anything. This is pending matter since it was duly introduced as an anonymous complaint to the Court of Arbitration.<br><br>And it gets absolute priority at the PPI General Assembly because the GA is the supreme body of appeal when the CoA fails to deliver, and because its outcome impacts on voting rights at the same General Assembly.<br><br>Vote outcomes could be different if the vote of the Catalan Pirate Party are deemed valid... so solving this issue comes first.<br><br><br>And not doing it in such a way raises that many LOGICAL and ETHICAL questions within PPI...<br><br>... that a FORK to the whole movement that provides a safe harbour for logically and ethically consistent Pirates... is not to e ruled out if PPI utterly fails in this.<br><br><br>Either way... you are done.<br><br><br>Antonio.<br><br><hr>Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:18:47 +0200<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013<br>From: kenneth@pirata.cat<br>To: ningunotro@hotmail.com; pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br><br>To propose anything... You need to do it through your officiap representatives.<div><br></div><div>The members of PPI are its parties, not its party members, and so far you haven't been appointed as PP-ES delegate.<br><br><br><font size=2>Salut!</font> </div><br>Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com> escribió:<br><div dir=ltr>It's a bit late to try to get a quorum lowering participation costs for remotely represented members to zero or almost zero.<br><br>Holding the GA in Kazan has been a strategical move only to benefit Gregory's position since the very beginning of it.<br><br>Remember, PP of Russia is not even registered yet.<br><br>Remember, there was such an interest in organizing this in Russia... that there were two concurrent bids from there.<br><br>Remember, the meetings where the outcome of the selection process was crafted... were densely populated with participants.<br><br>Remember, there is maybe still another meeting scheduled for Kiev... theoretically stealth approved through "administrative silence"... from Gregory?<br><br>Remember, the russian bids were so consistent... the venue for Kazan is not the originally offered venue anymore.<br><br>Remember, the Kazan offer is headed towards being the most expensive in the history of the pirate movement... only affordable for local russians and the international pirate dandies with unlimited travel budgets.<br><br>And certainly, it will be a place where Gregory will easily find straw men to hold his many delegation representations. How many this time, Gregory?<br><br><br>Surely, he aims for reelection, and he is bureaucratically working with his elbows towards it to the best of his abilities... and 150.000 rubles of personal subsidies.<br><br><br>I am tired of all the bulshit stacked into the Pirate Movement in such a short timeframe because of the lack of genuine leadership and vision in the Pirate Swarm.<br><br>It has become an IDIOCRACY some demagogues know far too well how to navigate with populism and mob rule.<br><br><br>If Kazan does not put an end to the endless horrors against logic and ethic imposed onto the Pirate Movement in Prague (I witnessed that in utter awe, do not know if it was more or less than in previous GAs)... then the Pirate Movement is a walking Zombie.<br><br><br>One single and simple test to begin with:<br><br>1) The bogus admission of the Catalan Pirate Party as a full member of the PPI after a mere propaganda session, a blackmail to the Assembly, and mob rule to impose a vote on a matter not being an ad-hoc competence of the General Assembly, instrumentalizing a non-motion of the Australian Pirate Party... and ignoring it did not even reach the required two-thirds majority.<br><br>The Statutes of PPI were blatantly ignored first, and consciously violated in a sentence of the Court of Arbitration that will certainly be awarded the Nobel Prize for utter stupidity as soon as it is created.<br><br>I presented a very argumented and of unavoidable consequences complaint to the Court of Arbitration... anonymously, as I could not get the backing of a spineless Board of the Spanish Pirate Party,... carefully following the published guidelines of the Rules of Procedure of the Court of Arbitration,... that had decided -without a hint of disapproval anywhere- that it would accept anonymous complaints of anybody in case of infringement to the PPI Statutes.<br><br>There was only one way to stop the complaint of achieving its goal... render the CoA absolutely inoperative so that it could not resolve into a result it could not tamper with.<br><br>PP-CH threatened to SUE the PPI in court in such a clumsy way it offered Gregory an dreamed excuse to impose the resignation of the Court of Arbitration as a Salomonic (rather satanic) "solution" the Swiss could be happy with or show muscle... and they folded.<br><br><br>As the voting rights of a bogus member are being contested... either we solve this adequately on-line BEFORE the assembly (and then maybe more members seeing some hope is still a push to get the needed remote participants on board)... or you will be fighting it out during the two days, unable to tackle anything else (what a waste of money and time for all those present in Kazan), and sign the demise of a pirate movement already lacking credibility for any intelligent being.<br><br><br>Antonio García.<br>(by some kind of weird disfunctional wonder... official member of the Board of the Spanish Pirate Party... while it lasts :( ). <br><br><hr>Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 03:02:40 +0200<br>From: jelena.the.one@gmail.com<br>To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013<br><br><blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on this list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.</span></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>that's what I am doing, that's community management, not campaign and advertising :) </div><div>thanx for having time to reply</div><div><br></div><div>I really believe conference fees should be none for remote participants, since Kazan is that far and that expensive. Excuse e Gregory, but fees are 3 do 4 times higher then in Prague.</div>
<div><br></div><div> </div><br><div class=ecxgmail_quote>On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Simon Frew <span dir=ltr><<a href="mailto:simon.frew@pirateparty.org.au" target=_blank>simon.frew@pirateparty.org.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir=ltr><div class=ecxim><div>>Jelena said:<br><br>>It was not a junket. it was good opportunity for networking. And there
is less trolling and hate speech when you meet someone face 2 face. <br><br></div></div>That's
good if you can afford it, none of our members seem to have the spare
funds to travel to Russia for a two day meeting, and we can't afford to
fund them out of our limited budget.<div class=ecxim><br>
<br>>I think conference few should be much lower for remote participants. Or it should be no fee at all. <br><br></div>Those
of us attending as remote delegates cannot register to attend. Leaving
us to wonder, will there even be remote delegates this year? Will it be
any better than previous years? <br><br>I think I speak for many non-European
parties when I say we are looking for reassurance and evidence that we
wont get screwed over and left out yet again. If this years GA is as farcical as the last two, the organisation will start to crumble.<div class=ecxim><br>
<br><div><b>>PPI has no budget,</b> and I as a board member didn't use any
money so far. Even for runnign FB campaign resources (maybe) could be
given from PP DE. <br>>When I realized it I gave up making a project proposal
and going trough bureaucracy for little campaign <br>>(managing FB ads from
Serbia is cheaper than in other countries, ofc talking about price per
click / per 1000 views) <br></div><div><br></div></div><div>I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on this list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.<br></div><div class=ecxim>
<div><br></div>
<div>>PPI board members, as far as I know, will go to
Kazan from their own money too. PPI has no budget even to send board to
PPI conference. <br>>And I agree it is not cheap even when you are flying
from Europe, I calculated costs of flight ticket and hotel and it was
cca 1.000 eur (~ 1.200 AU dollars), from the Balkans. <br><br></div></div><div><font color="#cc0000">Surely
remote participation would be more important than ever, yet despite
repeated efforts through multiple channels we cannot get a response
reassuring people who can't attend in person that they will be able to
participate and that remote delegates will be taken seriously.</font><br>
</div><div><br>What does the Board want the money for? How much does it want?<br><br>We are reluctant
to give money
to an organisation that we feel effectively excluded from, with no idea
what it will do. The trust we have in the PPI, if you can't tell is
basically non-existant at the moment. The Co-Chair publicly attacking us
for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to go to Russia doesn't
exactly give us confidence any money that goes to PPI will be used
wisely.<br><br></div><div class=ecxim><div>Mab wrote:<br><br>>The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for
our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed <br>>quite a few
fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely
text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that <br>>people can attend
regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any single round of
voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate <br>>that everyone can vote.<br><br></div></div><div>This sounds like the exact sort of thing that is needed for PPI.<br><br></div><div>Regards<span class=ecxHOEnZb><font color="#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></div><span class=ecxHOEnZb><font color="#888888"><div>Simon<br></div></font></span></div><div class=ecxHOEnZb><div class=h5>
<div class=ecxgmail_extra><br><br><div class=ecxgmail_quote>On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM, <span dir=ltr><<a href="mailto:mattias.bjarnemalm@piratpartiet.se" target=_blank>mattias.bjarnemalm@piratpartiet.se</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed quite a few fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that people can attend regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any single round of voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate that everyone can vote.<br>
<br>
I am pretty sure a similar model would work for PPI, which, given its delegate system, would have far less participants.<br>
<br>
If ppi where interested I am sure we could provide the technical know-how of how to set up a web forum.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
<br>
Mab<br>
PP-SE<br>
EU-branch<div><br>
<br>
<br>
On 2013-04-02 10:41, Simon Frew wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>
We just use cheap video streaming with an IRC channel where we verify<br>
who can vote and give them voice. Everyone with a computer monitors<br>
IRC so remote delegates get adequately represented. I think it costs<br>
about $50 for the streaming, but if its entirely online a Mumble<br>
server and a Pad would about do it. When we hired all of the gear it<br>
cost a total of $150 or so, but we have members who can provide a lot<br>
of infrastructure out of their own gear.<br>
<br>
It was suggested on #PPI IRC that one could be held on Google+, PP<br>
California meet using it (or did when I attended a meeting once) and<br>
it worked well. It means dealing with Google and subsequent privacy<br>
implications but it has video and is free.<br>
<br>
If there wont be any remote participation in the GA we might as well<br>
hold our own on Mumble. You guys could even have the honour of hosting<br>
the first one. Although PPAU has its own Mumble server too. Just start<br></div>
it later in your day time so I dont have to get up too early to<div><br>
attend. ;)<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Aza <<a href="mailto:rata_0071@hotmail.com" target=_blank>rata_0071@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div><blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>
2013/4/1 Simon Frew <<a href="mailto:simon.frew@pirateparty.org.au" target=_blank>simon.frew@pirateparty.org.au</a><u></u>><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=ecxgmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
We run remote participation for every congress in Australia and it costs virtually nothing. See our official complaint letter for how to do it. The idea it is expensive is false.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hey Simon could the PPAU provide the infrastructure for a virtual GA?<br>
<br></div>
At the PPAR we have a mumble server that could be used if you dont miss video.<br>
<br>
If we cant participate in the same one we may just as well have a parallel virtual GA<div><br>
<br>
regards<br>
aza<br>
<br>
President of the Intergalactic Pirate Party (IPP)<br>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=all><div><br></div>-- <br><blockquote style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br></blockquote>
<br><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">-- <br></span><div><font color="#666666" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">Jelena Jovanoviæ <a href="http://about.me/cybernaut" target=_blank>about.me/cybernaut</a> </font><div>
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