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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Very nice and constructive point of
view indeed, Justus. <br>
<br>
We (PP-GAL and other regional parties in Spain) had copied
statutes that were thought some time ago. In those first regional
statutes stated the requirement to confederate with only another
pirate party member of PPI, thinking about on PP-ES in the first
place. <br>
<br>
At that time it sounded right, and the rest of the regional pirate
parties thought theorically it would be a good idea, but we had
realized just a month ago while working on the Confederation
statutes exactly the same conclusion as you, Justus. However we
tried in that way first since we thought it would be the easiest
and fastest solution to get registrated before next summer as that
was our intention.<br>
<br>
However we are working now on another ways of procedure. It is
going to take us some more time, but we hope to be confederated
this year at last. :)<br>
<br>
I would like to add to your points of view, we see PPI an
organization which objectives are to help groups of pirates to
spread the pirate ideology and to fight for a better world to live
in. <br>
<br>
PPI as an organization is not going to face elections ever so I
think it is not its duty to establish scopes in their memberships.
All pirates are equal and the choices or decisions we are going to
face as international pirates shouldn't matter scopes at all.<br>
<br>
The structure bottom-up is much more efficent than the top-down
structure to get to the people at the streets. To talk about those
ideas we share face to face with them. This is very necesary if we
want to get positions in elections. Not everyone (especially in
rural areas and majority of old populated areas) are familiar with
IT. We have to try to get to them too, as we see the Pirate
Movement as a vision that is not restricted for anyone: one of its
goals is global participation of citizens in politics through
Direct Democracy. At least in Spain it does.<br>
<br>
We wish this situation of continued malcontent would get to an end
soon.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Isabel Fernandez
GPG EA63DF8E
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.piratasdegalicia.org">www.piratasdegalicia.org</a>
</pre>
El 24/04/13 13:45, Justus Römeth escribió:<br>
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cite="mid:CACWaH_BA+TFEQ1g6bcXPAkZPbcHUGODrcCLONM-UCsLG9dNmoA@mail.gmail.com"
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<div>I think PPI is needed, but that many people expect
too much of it. Also, some people seem to expect it to
handle everything that happens internationally
concerning pirates.<br>
<br>
</div>
As an addition to what Thomas wrote, I think PPI can be
a good place (not the only one!) for the press to get
information and contacts concerning pirates. In the same
manner it can be a good place for people willing to
start their own pirate party to get support and tips. I
can imagine that a lot of pirates form places that are
not exactly democratic are doing exactly this. PPI can
be something of a lightning rod or lighthouse, in that
matter, as well as a formal way to help us stay
organized and motivated.<br>
<br>
</div>
However, it should not be the only place for Pirates that
want to do stuff internationally. But it is up to all of
us to make sure that those things happen elsewhere. It is
true that PPI was very eurocentric. We are now in the
process of founding PPEU to adress that (arguably in
Europe more international contacts are needed to get stuff
done politically than in, say, the US, Australia or
Brazil), hopefully freeing PPI's time to adress more
things on a global scale. It is true that the PPI GA in
Prague has been quite chaotic to follow remotely, and that
a lot of things were going on there that were going on
there because it was the only big inernational Pirate
Party conference after Friedrichshafen one year before in
Europe. Some of us are adressing this, with the meetings
concerning PPEU as well as with meetings unrelated to it
(like the workshop in Hanover). It is true that PPI is not
doing enough for information exchange. Hence some Pirates
set up Pirate Times.<br>
<br>
</div>
We do not need PPI to do organize dozens of conferences or
the flow of knowledge. PPI is supposed to support those
processes and events (except the annual GA), and we should
not rely on it to do those things. PPI is not the only forum
where pirates can engage internationally, and you do not
need your national party to be a PPI member in order to
become active internationally (thank god, I would hate to
not have Joseph of Matthias from PPSE here!) It is not PPI's
place to decide what a is or isn't a pirate party, and I do
not think that that is what the conflict with and
discussions about PPES and PPCAT have been about. I welcome
each and every pirate to engage in these tasks, be them
within or without PPI. I respect every Parties' decision not
to engage with PPI anymore because of frustration, it is
very much in their right, and does not make them less of a
pirate party.<br>
<br>
I would like to more less pirates being less judgemental
about what other pirates are doing wrong, but focussing on
trying to show that it can be done better by doing it
themselves instead.<br>
<br>
</div>
Kind regards<br>
<br>
</div>
Justus<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:26 PM, <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mattias.bjarnemalm@piratpartiet.se"
target="_blank">mattias.bjarnemalm@piratpartiet.se</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">On 2013-04-21 04:21, Tom Behets wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br>
And lastly, can someone explain me how it comes that the
Catalanian<br>
party is a member of PPI, and not just a crew of Spain?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
Dear Tom,<br>
<br>
I can give you a long and detailed explanation on that topic
next time we meet. It is a topic that is better told face to
face and I am pretty sure this mailing list don't need one
more recap of this. For some reason it usually leads to a
lot of emails being sent on the list with very little
valuable content.<br>
<br>
/Mab
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
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Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general"
target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
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Pirate Parties International - General Talk
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a>
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