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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>A minimum of respect for logic, ethic, and our own rules should do a lot towards keeping things civilized...<br><br>... but then, some PPI officials and also Pirate Party elites are in dire need of learning what that is...<br><br><br>... because it is them who are ruining everything Pirate pursuing shady personal gains.<br><br><br>And the rest is just looking on and letting them get away with it because they have never known what being a pirate is supposed to look like.<br><br><br>R. I. P. PPI. :( .<br><br><br>Two years of childish bullshit and self-catering for some... has been enough.<br><br><br><br>Antonio. <br><br><br><br><br><div>> Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 18:48:42 +0200<br>> From: zzbbyy@gmail.com<br>> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?<br>> <br>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Travis McCrea <me@travismccrea.com> wrote:<br>> > Johan,<br>> > This is a message that I keep trying to spread on this mailing list. I am glad someone else understands the importance of unity.<br>> <br>> Actually I don't think we need unity - we need to accept that we are<br>> all different and have different ideas and we don't need to agree with<br>> each other on everything. I believe that it is the thinking that we<br>> need to be a unity that generates all the heat here - because it makes<br>> people feel that a differnce is unacceptable.<br>> <br>> Z.<br>> <br>> <br>> ><br>> > Johan Karlsson wrote:<br>> >> Everyone, please, try to be nice to each other. We are all on the same<br>> >> team here, fighting for the same goal.<br>> >><br>> >> Every time you send an angry email to this list someone is going to<br>> >> feel targeted and become a bit demoralized. Depending on who that is<br>> >> he or she will either be very sad after just a single email. Or<br>> >> perhaps the recipient of the email will only feel a tiny bit annoyed.<br>> >> But after a while all those tiny bits of annoyance will start to get<br>> >> to you and you wont find it fun to continue working for the movement.<br>> >> When that happens you either try to struggle on, but will feel the<br>> >> need to yell at others just to stay sane, or you will simply drop out<br>> >> of the Pirate party. Dropping out may actually then be the best thing<br>> >> for the movement as a whole as you at least stop spreading that bad mode.<br>> >><br>> >> I know its hard to get along, and especially in a large group like<br>> >> this there WILL be people you dont like, or perhaps even hate. The<br>> >> problem is that everyone feels the same way as you, but towards<br>> >> different people. I actually think that everyone on this list have at<br>> >> least two or three other people that hate him or her.<br>> >> I dont feel very good about that. Id really like to ask all of you to<br>> >> please consider what you are doing. When you write an angry email to<br>> >> someone Im sure you think you are doing good - taking a stand for a<br>> >> very important issue, such as for example this one with the emails<br>> >> being scanned by google and perhaps NSA. The problem is that there are<br>> >> hundreds, perhaps even thousands of issues that is just about as<br>> >> important as this one. And if we shall make someone feel bad or<br>> >> perhaps even leaving the movement for every single issue there soon<br>> >> wont be many pirates left to fix the issues at hand.<br>> >><br>> >> Im not asking you to be quiet about your opinions. They are really<br>> >> important and what makes us go forward as a movement. But Im begging<br>> >> you to, please, consider how you are phrasing yourself and please stop<br>> >> this mass bullying of all other pirates on this list. The future of<br>> >> the movement depends on it.<br>> >><br>> >> Kind Regards<br>> >> Johan Karlsson<br>> >> Member of the Swedish Pirate party<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Thijs Markus<br>> >> <thijs.markus@piratenpartij.nl <mailto:thijs.markus@piratenpartij.nl>><br>> >> wrote:<br>> >><br>> >> Yes, how terribly impolite to keep an open and transparant<br>> >> discussion thus. Transparancy is bad and you should feel bad!<br>> >> These things ought to be resolved in private, behind closed doors.<br>> >> Else some blatant incompetence might be become public knowledge<br>> >> and we wouldn't want that now would we? You see, some people<br>> >> simply lack the merits to counterbalance their failings, and it'd<br>> >> be horribly unfair to them if we did things in an open and<br>> >> transparant fashion.<br>> >><br>> >> Gregory Engels schreef op 07.06.2013 17:06:<br>> >><br>> >> Patric.<br>> >><br>> >> since you stated, that you are not interested in what I write, I<br>> >> refrain from answering.<br>> >> Also, It is unacceptable to forward private conversation to a<br>> >> public<br>> >> mailing list.<br>> >> YOU are talking about privacy issues? Dude, get a life.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> sincerely yours,<br>> >><br>> >> Gregory Engels<br>> >> Co-Chairman<br>> >> Pirate Parties International<br>> >><br>> >> mobile: +49 172 853 44 91<br>> >> skype:gregory.engels<br>> >> jabber:dichter@jabber.__piratenpartei.de<br>> >> <mailto:jabber%3Adichter@jabber.piratenpartei.de><br>> >> my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> On 07.06.2013, at 14:39, Patrick Godschalk<br>> >> <patrick.godschalk@__piratenpartij.nl<br>> >> <mailto:patrick.godschalk@piratenpartij.nl>> wrote:<br>> >><br>> >> Patrick,<br>> >><br>> >> Please stop this.<br>> >> Believe me, there is no problem, and you are not<br>> >> seeing the reality how it is.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> I consider this a problem. The people in this thread in April<br>> >> also seemed to consider this a problem. That, by definition,<br>> >> makes it a problem for some people. And since those people are<br>> >> members of Pirate Parties, you know, the people you as a board<br>> >> are supposed to help coordinate, that also makes it *your*<br>> >> problem as a board, whether you like or agree with it or not.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Since you have posted the DIG output of PPI Dns you<br>> >> should be able<br>> >> to interpret the results, instead of making false<br>> >> accusations based on<br>> >> misunderstanding. You claim, that there is some<br>> >> problem with the<br>> >> website, cause you se some A and AAAA records in the<br>> >> output<br>> >> pointing to google. This is however entirely<br>> >> irrelevant for the Website.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Again, I have NO idea how the website is hosted as I've<br>> >> pointed<br>> >> out in three earlier mails. That also wasn't ever the<br>> >> point, as<br>> >> the thread was specifically started around the e-mail accounts<br>> >> on pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net>, as<br>> >> you could've deduced from the fact<br>> >> that I specifically ran dig for MX records.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> You are keeping ranting around, without considering<br>> >> the possibility<br>> >> that you might be wrong.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Possibly, but the same could be said about you. Regardless,<br>> >> this isn't a constructive argument whatsoever and an ad<br>> >> hominem at best. You seem to be under the impression that I'm<br>> >> out to 'get you', or 'get PPI'. I'm not. In fact, I have no<br>> >> strong feelings about you or PPI whatsoever. (Also known as<br>> >> apathy, which isn't a good position for your members to be<br>> >> in, but that's a different matter.)<br>> >><br>> >> What I *do* care about is the privacy of individuals sending<br>> >> an e-mail to PPI for any reason whatsoever. Think<br>> >> journalists, who are in many countries dependent on privacy<br>> >> for their job and in a few countries, their life. *THAT'S*<br>> >> why I'm sending this e-mail thread.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Your initial question was "dig pp-international.net<br>> >> <http://pp-international.net> mx" which gives<br>> >> you most everything about the MAIL routing to the<br>> >> op-international.net <http://op-international.net><br>> >> domain. It gives you NONE answer for mail routing to<br>> >> other subdomains<br>> >> or the WEB lookup.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> As I've addressed in my earlier mail, yes, when I mentioned<br>> >> that this issue is specifically related to the<br>> >> pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net> domain.<br>> >> Not lists.$ or<br>> >> lists.pirateweb.org <http://lists.pirateweb.org>. You're<br>> >> sending me an argument I've made<br>> >> myself in an earlier e-mail. Wut?<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> If you have something important to say, that should<br>> >> stay private, use<br>> >> some encryption, for goodness sake! otherwise you only<br>> >> have a false<br>> >> impression of security.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Okay, yeah. Guys, show's over! Everyone should just make<br>> >> their own privacy. No need for us anymore, lets all just<br>> >> assume everyone has the technical know-how to run decent<br>> >> encryption.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> that is all said. everything else is just mindless<br>> >> ranting and fighting.<br>> >> there is no need for this. I am not against you, or<br>> >> anybody inside the<br>> >> pirate movement, and we should treat each other with<br>> >> the due respect,<br>> >> as we all doing our job out of idealism and entirely<br>> >> voluntarily.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Honestly, I've found your tone more disrespectful than not.<br>> >> Again, I don't really mind or care, I can take it if it'll<br>> >> lead to actually getting shit *done*. But whether you're<br>> >> 'against me' or not, lets cut it out with the passive<br>> >> aggressiveness. I prefer raw hate.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Yes, we could spend our few resources for migration<br>> >> out from google,<br>> >> but then, we would miss them for other projects, and<br>> >> in the end,<br>> >> we would only switch from something that is working<br>> >> flawlessly to something<br>> >> else, without improving anything or solving any problem.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> According to<br>> >> <https://github.com/Pirate-__Parties-International<br>> >> <https://github.com/Pirate-Parties-International>><br>> >> there are (at least) 168 people with more than enough<br>> >> experience to set up a simple mail server. Therefore it's not<br>> >> a matter of volunteers being available. A simple VPS (which is<br>> >> all that's needed really) will net you under 5$ (or whatever<br>> >> currency) a month. How much did the Kazán conference cost<br>> >> again?<br>> >><br>> >> Also, what other projects?<br>> >><br>> >> --<br>> >> Patrick Godschalk<br>> >> patrick.godschalk@__piratenpartij.nl<br>> >> <mailto:patrick.godschalk@piratenpartij.nl><br>> >> GPG: 86DF FF6F B123 EEF8 AE43 E652 33C0 785F A15F 01AA (SHA-1)<br>> >> This e-mail is under the CC0 Public Domain Dedication.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> ______________________________________________________<br>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> >> pp.international.general@__lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> <mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net><br>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general<br>> >> <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> ______________________________________________________<br>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> >> pp.international.general@__lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> <mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net><br>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general<br>> >> <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> ____________________________________________________<br>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> >> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> > ____________________________________________________<br>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> > pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> Zbigniew Lukasiak<br>> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/<br>> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/<br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br></div> </div></body>
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