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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Guy, don't I wish you were the only one!<br><br>But as things evolve... I bet the majority of pirates does not even know what a theory is, not has the memory nor the will to analyse past (not even hours) things...<br><br>... and some take very much advantage of that to impose their organised will ;) .<br><br><br>There is good folks :) and bad folks ;( playing with pirate mass dynamics.<br><br><br>Pirates should not have to play with mass dynamics.<br><br><br>Antonio.<br><br><br><br><div>> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:50:18 +0200<br>> From: pirate@valio.ch<br>> To: ningunotro@hotmail.com<br>> CC: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net; kenneth@pirata.cat<br>> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list<br>> <br>> True; I forgot about that possible shortcoming with my theory.<br>> <br>> -pat<br>> <br>> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com>:<br>> <br>> > I checked, the list published his reply too :( . Should not have <br>> > been if he had cancelled subscription.<br>> ><br>> > Of course, he can have unsubscribed as he told, and then sign on <br>> > again just to answer.<br>> ><br>> > Or he may have lied.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Antonio.<br>> ><br>> >> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:29:05 +0200<br>> >> From: pirate@valio.ch<br>> >> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net; ningunotro@hotmail.com<br>> >> CC: kenneth@pirata.cat; pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some <br>> >> thoughts for the mailing list<br>> >><br>> >> Not necessarily.<br>> >> In your previous mail you included him in the CC; he's still there in<br>> >> my mail here as well.<br>> >><br>> >> -pat<br>> >><br>> >> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com>:<br>> >><br>> >> > He must have signed on again just to tell you all...<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Must be pathologic, lol.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > Antonio.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:59:55 +0200<br>> >> > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some<br>> >> > thoughts for the mailing list<br>> >> > From: kenneth@pirata.cat<br>> >> > To: ningunotro@hotmail.com; pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Can somebody please ban this mentall ill liar?????<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Salut!<br>> >> > Kenneth<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > -------- Missatge original --------<br>> >> > De: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com><br>> >> > Data: 15/06/2013 19:14 (GMT+01:00)<br>> >> > A: Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth@pirata.cat>,Pirate Parties International<br>> >> > -- General Talk <pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net><br>> >> > Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some<br>> >> > thoughts for the mailing list<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > Mr. Peiruza has a very developed habit of discrediting whatever does<br>> >> > not conform to his own personal beliefs.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Of course, this is bullshit! Only when he does it himself he does<br>> >> > seem to have a blind eye and be very tolerating. One not so nice and<br>> >> > superb example is this one: http://iPir.at/catalunya . Certainly<br>> >> > worth the Nobel Price of insult and slander.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > He must also be the only person to have blackmailed a PPI GA, in<br>> >> > Prague, where he threatened to derail it at a moment when it could<br>> >> > have had a terrible impact on the press coverage of the German<br>> >> > Pirate Party just before two crucial regional elections.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Sadly, the whole pirate movement is in such a bad shape that instead<br>> >> > of not achieving his goals, he got rewarded by the kids in the<br>> >> > movement and certain bastard interests... and everything legal and<br>> >> > illegal was done to keep the issue off the agenda in Kazan. Well,<br>> >> > you all know hat you have to live with, and whether it is bearable.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > In the document http://iPir.at/catalunya Mr. Peiruza tries to paint<br>> >> > the Spanish Pirate Party black because it did and does not conform<br>> >> > to his present beliefs...<br>> >> ><br>> >> > ... but what he does not tell is that he became a member of the<br>> >> > Spanish Pirate Party knowing what it stood for and who its members<br>> >> > were, and that he broke away of it keeping the brand to follow his<br>> >> > own agenda with a few other fellow Catalans.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > The Spanish Pirate party started as a clean copy of the Swedish one,<br>> >> > with a focus on issues that were dealt with at the national and<br>> >> > international level. No provisions for participation in regional nor<br>> >> > local elections existed thus in its Statutes, and Mr. Peiruza and<br>> >> > other Catalans were bound to know this when they joined the party<br>> >> > voluntarily.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > One particularity of the Statutes of the Spanish Pirate Party was<br>> >> > that, the people founding the party had probably had some bad<br>> >> > experiences in the past, and had been a bit paranoid as to the<br>> >> > protection of the basic identity and goals of the party... such that<br>> >> > they protected that part of the Statutes stipulating that they could<br>> >> > only be changed with a majority vote expressed by at least 90% of<br>> >> > the membership of the party.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > I was not there, I can say nothing about the assertion by Mr.<br>> >> > Peiruza that many of the original founders and initial membership of<br>> >> > the Spanish Pirate Party were rightwingers... he himself seems to be<br>> >> > quite lefty and a good friend of Catalan separatists... so I can<br>> >> > imagine why he might like to exagerate certain tendencies to suit<br>> >> > his needs. In any case... I can imagine that he would never have<br>> >> > found enough backing to have the Statutes changed so as to cater for<br>> >> > his and others particular interests regarding the region of Catalunya.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Fact is thus... that a Spanish Pirate Party existed covering the<br>> >> > whole of Spain, and catering for issues that could only be addressed<br>> >> > at the national and european level. Its Statutes did not provide<br>> >> > ways to participate in regional and local elections.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Mr. Peiruza and his Catalan comrades would certainly have had a very<br>> >> > hard time trying to convince the membership scattered over all Spain<br>> >> > to vote a Statutes change to allow for participation in regional and<br>> >> > local elections. To be honest, an added difficulty was the less than<br>> >> > optimal member register combined by the lack of membership fees,<br>> >> > that difficulted the writeoff of people that once adhered but showed<br>> >> > no reactions to efforts to contact them. As long as they were not<br>> >> > written off... they were part of the census of which 90% had to vote<br>> >> > to make important Statutes changes possible. When the Catalans set<br>> >> > their aim at participating in the Catalan regional elections... no<br>> >> > procedure whatsoever respectful of the rights of members could be<br>> >> > found... expedient enough to change the Statutes in time so the<br>> >> > Spanish Pirate Party could have participated in the Catalan regional<br>> >> > elections.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > THAT is the one and only REAL reason why... they decided to skip all<br>> >> > difficulties and abandon everyone that did not cater for their<br>> >> > regional priorities, and forgetting the master lines of the Pirate<br>> >> > Movement, created a split only to be able to be Catalans before<br>> >> > being Pirates, while conveniently continuing to squat the Pirate<br>> >> > brand.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > While he only dares say it when it suits him, he is right when he<br>> >> > says that this Pirate Movement isn't a Swarm anymore. It is indeed<br>> >> > what he says, and he has forgotten to mention the few ultrapragmatic<br>> >> > Überbureaucrats that cater for their own personal agenda.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > The initial guidelines provided by Rick have shown to be way<br>> >> > insufficient to maintain cohesion within the movement. And while he<br>> >> > may have provided sufficient leadership in Sweden, elsewhere the<br>> >> > Pirate Parties have fallen prey to populist interpretations limited<br>> >> > by acute knowledge of facts by the majority of their unskilled and<br>> >> > little realityaware members.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > For a swarm to grow and become stronger... it has to attract more<br>> >> > and more intelligent members... but it has fallen prey to simplism<br>> >> > and simplifications along the road, specially since the 15M /<br>> >> > Indignado / Occupy Movement has popularized the populist and near<br>> >> > communist, dogmatic and mechanical vision of equality among men...<br>> >> > for everyone to be mechanically equal, considering that we do not<br>> >> > know yet how to make everyone as smart as the smartest, we shall<br>> >> > apply an intellectual lobotomy to make everyone as dumb as the<br>> >> > dumbest. The majority of not so smart members decides, and it<br>> >> > decides to ignore anything it does not understand without effort.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > As a result, all but the most aware of Pirate Parties are evolving<br>> >> > unstoppably towards IDIOCRACIES.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > And whenever their delegates come together, we get clownesque shows<br>> >> > like the one seen in Prague and in Kazan/Brussels (I was not around<br>> >> > to rate the previous gatherings).<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Believe what you want, call me what you like, shove another chimney<br>> >> > pipe up my ass ;) ...<br>> >> ><br>> >> > ... only the most imperative of real actions can change that trend,<br>> >> > and I do not see it happening from within the Movement.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > And rules for mailing lists etc. won't change a thing... you can<br>> >> > not impose rules, whatever rules, upon those that choose not to<br>> >> > understand why they are necessary...<br>> >> ><br>> >> > ... you will only achieve to burn out whatever people have finally<br>> >> > to deal with their enforcement.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > The only way is to keep out people that do not understand enough. If<br>> >> > not from the society we want to build... at least from the combat<br>> >> > units we try to build it with.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Nothing can be organised democratically to fight the situation in<br>> >> > our present society... if it is the majority of ignorants that has<br>> >> > to decide what has to be done.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > We are political parties trying to organize a kindergarten where<br>> >> > everybody can be happy if that happens to be the best possible thing<br>> >> > to be got (hopefully not)... not a kindergarten yet.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > I guess somebody, somewhere, will have to start getting really<br>> >> > serious about the Pirate stuff...<br>> >> ><br>> >> > ... or registering the brand while it has no content worth<br>> >> > preserving will be a futile game.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > Antonio.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:58:57 +0200<br>> >> > From: kenneth@pirata.cat<br>> >> > To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some<br>> >> > thoughts for the mailing list<br>> >> ><br>> >> > This is bullshit, moreover when very few people keep on harassing<br>> >> > and insulting anyone not agreeing with them here.<br>> >> > This isn't a swarm, it's a melting pot of activists from parties at<br>> >> > a diferent stage of maturity + a bunch of fools/morons.<br>> >> > So, if this list can't be that swarm, let's start a new and fresh<br>> >> > one (as you suggested in your swarmwise).<br>> >> > If you want to relly me, add me to cc, as I have just<br>> >> > unsubscribed.It's sad, I've been in this mailing list since 2009,<br>> >> > but right now it's just a piece of shit. This "swarm" is dead.<br>> >> > Regards,<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > Kenneth<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > -------- Missatge original --------<br>> >> > De: "Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)" <rick.falkvinge@piratpartiet.se><br>> >> > Data: 15/06/2013 14:23 (GMT+01:00)<br>> >> > A: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>> >> > <pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net><br>> >> > Assumpte: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts<br>> >> > for the mailing list<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>> >> > Hash: SHA1<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Dear colleagues,<br>> >> ><br>> >> > I read the notice of a formal complaint about this channel. It was not<br>> >> > set up to be a moderated channel, nor is it one. Therefore, a formal<br>> >> > complaint is kind of an oxymoron as there are no formal rules to base<br>> >> > a complaint on.<br>> >> ><br>> >> > After all, rules that cannot reasonably be enforced are not rules you<br>> >> > want to have. You cannot keep somebody from posting to an open list,<br>> >> > and openness is a virtue. The alternative would be moderating posts<br>> >> > and/or participants, and that's not who we are; that's not the swarm<br>> >> > way of collaborating.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > Instead, I'd like to remind everybody about two important principles:<br>> >> ><br>> >> > - - Attention is reward.<br>> >> > - - If you see something you don't like, contribute with something<br>> >> > you do like.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > ATTENTION IS REWARD: If you give somebody attention for a behavior,<br>> >> > you will reinforce that behavior, whether the behavior is something<br>> >> > you want to see more or less of. This means that giving attention to<br>> >> > things you dislike is inherently self-defeating, as they will be<br>> >> > nurtured by your attention.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, CONTRIBUTE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO<br>> >> > LIKE: This is closely related to the Law of Two Feet. We're a<br>> >> > meritocracy where we're dependent on many people trying many different<br>> >> > things. Leadership with us is not achieved by vote or appointment, but<br>> >> > by taking an initiative and letting others follow that initiative of<br>> >> > their own free will. Disliking an initiative is fine, but criticizing<br>> >> > the initiative from that emotion misses the point - being pioneers, we<br>> >> > must necessarily try many paths, and many of them will be dead ends,<br>> >> > but we don't know that before trying them. The more paths we try, the<br>> >> > more ways of success we'll find. Therefore, the proper response to<br>> >> > seeing somebody walk down a path you don't believe in is to walk down<br>> >> > your own path that you believe more in.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > (As a final plug, these and many more principles are covered more<br>> >> > in-depth in my book Swarmwise, which covers my leadership experiences<br>> >> > taking the PPSE from nothing into the European Parliament. Five<br>> >> > chapters have been published so far, and you can read them here:<br>> >> ><br>> >> > <br>> >> http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/<br>> >> ><br>> >> > )<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Cheers,<br>> >> > Rick<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > PS: On the rare occasion, I have seen disrespect against fellow<br>> >> > activists on this mailing list, and I never think that's ok. Whether<br>> >> > to call it out or not is a judgment call on a case-by-case basis, but<br>> >> > that will not be done by the mailing list maintainers in that role.<br>> >> > See the two names as technical administrators of the mailing list<br>> >> > server, and not enforcers of any kind of social rules.<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> > - --<br>> >> > Rick Falkvinge<br>> >> > Founder of the first Pirate Party<br>> >> > Piratpartiet SE<br>> >> ><br>> >> > @Falkvinge<br>> >> > +46708303600<br>> >> ><br>> >> > Blog, bio and press photos at http://falkvinge.net/photos-bio/<br>> >> ><br>> >> > My mails are always digitally signed. If you get a mail that isn't, it<br>> >> > was not sent by me.<br>> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>> >> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)<br>> >> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/<br>> >> ><br>> >> > iEYEARECAAYFAlG8XLUACgkQ7pnTrWI4jx2N6gCgir2luXwVjBJmicL/9LbwM5fo<br>> >> > yB0AoIAsEPMHXT7oizc1rJ7O2zSA9No0<br>> >> > =+ojY<br>> >> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>> >> > ____________________________________________________<br>> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> >> > pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> >> ><br>> >> > ____________________________________________________<br>> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> >> > pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >> ><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> ><br>> <br>> <br></div> </div></body>
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