<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body ><div>I pushed the fucking unsubscribe link, filled-in my email and received an ok but no confirmation email, so, sadly I am still here, watching this moron talking about me and wanking about what might I think or have done.</div><div><br></div><div>Pathetic moron, please go visit a doctor.</div><div><br></div>Salut!<div><br></div><div>Kenneth</div><br><br><br>-------- Missatge original --------<br>De: pirate@valio.ch <br>Data: 15/06/2013 21:50 (GMT+01:00) <br>A: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com> <br>Ac: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk <pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net>,Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth@pirata.cat> <br>Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list <br> <br><br>True; I forgot about that possible shortcoming with my theory.<br><br>-pat<br><br>Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com>:<br><br>> I checked, the list published his reply too :( . Should not have <br>> been if he had cancelled subscription.<br>><br>> Of course, he can have unsubscribed as he told, and then sign on <br>> again just to answer.<br>><br>> Or he may have lied.<br>><br>><br>> Antonio.<br>><br>>> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:29:05 +0200<br>>> From: pirate@valio.ch<br>>> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net; ningunotro@hotmail.com<br>>> CC: kenneth@pirata.cat; pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some <br>>> thoughts for the mailing list<br>>><br>>> Not necessarily.<br>>> In your previous mail you included him in the CC; he's still there in<br>>> my mail here as well.<br>>><br>>> -pat<br>>><br>>> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com>:<br>>><br>>> > He must have signed on again just to tell you all...<br>>> ><br>>> > Must be pathologic, lol.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Antonio.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:59:55 +0200<br>>> > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some<br>>> > thoughts for the mailing list<br>>> > From: kenneth@pirata.cat<br>>> > To: ningunotro@hotmail.com; pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>>> ><br>>> > Can somebody please ban this mentall ill liar?????<br>>> ><br>>> > Salut!<br>>> > Kenneth<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > -------- Missatge original --------<br>>> > De: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro@hotmail.com><br>>> > Data: 15/06/2013 19:14 (GMT+01:00)<br>>> > A: Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth@pirata.cat>,Pirate Parties International<br>>> > -- General Talk <pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net><br>>> > Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some<br>>> > thoughts for the mailing list<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Mr. Peiruza has a very developed habit of discrediting whatever does<br>>> > not conform to his own personal beliefs.<br>>> ><br>>> > Of course, this is bullshit! Only when he does it himself he does<br>>> > seem to have a blind eye and be very tolerating. One not so nice and<br>>> > superb example is this one: http://iPir.at/catalunya . Certainly<br>>> > worth the Nobel Price of insult and slander.<br>>> ><br>>> > He must also be the only person to have blackmailed a PPI GA, in<br>>> > Prague, where he threatened to derail it at a moment when it could<br>>> > have had a terrible impact on the press coverage of the German<br>>> > Pirate Party just before two crucial regional elections.<br>>> ><br>>> > Sadly, the whole pirate movement is in such a bad shape that instead<br>>> > of not achieving his goals, he got rewarded by the kids in the<br>>> > movement and certain bastard interests... and everything legal and<br>>> > illegal was done to keep the issue off the agenda in Kazan. Well,<br>>> > you all know hat you have to live with, and whether it is bearable.<br>>> ><br>>> > In the document http://iPir.at/catalunya Mr. Peiruza tries to paint<br>>> > the Spanish Pirate Party black because it did and does not conform<br>>> > to his present beliefs...<br>>> ><br>>> > ... but what he does not tell is that he became a member of the<br>>> > Spanish Pirate Party knowing what it stood for and who its members<br>>> > were, and that he broke away of it keeping the brand to follow his<br>>> > own agenda with a few other fellow Catalans.<br>>> ><br>>> > The Spanish Pirate party started as a clean copy of the Swedish one,<br>>> > with a focus on issues that were dealt with at the national and<br>>> > international level. No provisions for participation in regional nor<br>>> > local elections existed thus in its Statutes, and Mr. Peiruza and<br>>> > other Catalans were bound to know this when they joined the party<br>>> > voluntarily.<br>>> ><br>>> > One particularity of the Statutes of the Spanish Pirate Party was<br>>> > that, the people founding the party had probably had some bad<br>>> > experiences in the past, and had been a bit paranoid as to the<br>>> > protection of the basic identity and goals of the party... such that<br>>> > they protected that part of the Statutes stipulating that they could<br>>> > only be changed with a majority vote expressed by at least 90% of<br>>> > the membership of the party.<br>>> ><br>>> > I was not there, I can say nothing about the assertion by Mr.<br>>> > Peiruza that many of the original founders and initial membership of<br>>> > the Spanish Pirate Party were rightwingers... he himself seems to be<br>>> > quite lefty and a good friend of Catalan separatists... so I can<br>>> > imagine why he might like to exagerate certain tendencies to suit<br>>> > his needs. In any case... I can imagine that he would never have<br>>> > found enough backing to have the Statutes changed so as to cater for<br>>> > his and others particular interests regarding the region of Catalunya.<br>>> ><br>>> > Fact is thus... that a Spanish Pirate Party existed covering the<br>>> > whole of Spain, and catering for issues that could only be addressed<br>>> > at the national and european level. Its Statutes did not provide<br>>> > ways to participate in regional and local elections.<br>>> ><br>>> > Mr. Peiruza and his Catalan comrades would certainly have had a very<br>>> > hard time trying to convince the membership scattered over all Spain<br>>> > to vote a Statutes change to allow for participation in regional and<br>>> > local elections. To be honest, an added difficulty was the less than<br>>> > optimal member register combined by the lack of membership fees,<br>>> > that difficulted the writeoff of people that once adhered but showed<br>>> > no reactions to efforts to contact them. As long as they were not<br>>> > written off... they were part of the census of which 90% had to vote<br>>> > to make important Statutes changes possible. When the Catalans set<br>>> > their aim at participating in the Catalan regional elections... no<br>>> > procedure whatsoever respectful of the rights of members could be<br>>> > found... expedient enough to change the Statutes in time so the<br>>> > Spanish Pirate Party could have participated in the Catalan regional<br>>> > elections.<br>>> ><br>>> > THAT is the one and only REAL reason why... they decided to skip all<br>>> > difficulties and abandon everyone that did not cater for their<br>>> > regional priorities, and forgetting the master lines of the Pirate<br>>> > Movement, created a split only to be able to be Catalans before<br>>> > being Pirates, while conveniently continuing to squat the Pirate<br>>> > brand.<br>>> ><br>>> > While he only dares say it when it suits him, he is right when he<br>>> > says that this Pirate Movement isn't a Swarm anymore. It is indeed<br>>> > what he says, and he has forgotten to mention the few ultrapragmatic<br>>> > Überbureaucrats that cater for their own personal agenda.<br>>> ><br>>> > The initial guidelines provided by Rick have shown to be way<br>>> > insufficient to maintain cohesion within the movement. And while he<br>>> > may have provided sufficient leadership in Sweden, elsewhere the<br>>> > Pirate Parties have fallen prey to populist interpretations limited<br>>> > by acute knowledge of facts by the majority of their unskilled and<br>>> > little realityaware members.<br>>> ><br>>> > For a swarm to grow and become stronger... it has to attract more<br>>> > and more intelligent members... but it has fallen prey to simplism<br>>> > and simplifications along the road, specially since the 15M /<br>>> > Indignado / Occupy Movement has popularized the populist and near<br>>> > communist, dogmatic and mechanical vision of equality among men...<br>>> > for everyone to be mechanically equal, considering that we do not<br>>> > know yet how to make everyone as smart as the smartest, we shall<br>>> > apply an intellectual lobotomy to make everyone as dumb as the<br>>> > dumbest. The majority of not so smart members decides, and it<br>>> > decides to ignore anything it does not understand without effort.<br>>> ><br>>> > As a result, all but the most aware of Pirate Parties are evolving<br>>> > unstoppably towards IDIOCRACIES.<br>>> ><br>>> > And whenever their delegates come together, we get clownesque shows<br>>> > like the one seen in Prague and in Kazan/Brussels (I was not around<br>>> > to rate the previous gatherings).<br>>> ><br>>> > Believe what you want, call me what you like, shove another chimney<br>>> > pipe up my ass ;) ...<br>>> ><br>>> > ... only the most imperative of real actions can change that trend,<br>>> > and I do not see it happening from within the Movement.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > And rules for mailing lists etc. won't change a thing... you can<br>>> > not impose rules, whatever rules, upon those that choose not to<br>>> > understand why they are necessary...<br>>> ><br>>> > ... you will only achieve to burn out whatever people have finally<br>>> > to deal with their enforcement.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > The only way is to keep out people that do not understand enough. If<br>>> > not from the society we want to build... at least from the combat<br>>> > units we try to build it with.<br>>> ><br>>> > Nothing can be organised democratically to fight the situation in<br>>> > our present society... if it is the majority of ignorants that has<br>>> > to decide what has to be done.<br>>> ><br>>> > We are political parties trying to organize a kindergarten where<br>>> > everybody can be happy if that happens to be the best possible thing<br>>> > to be got (hopefully not)... not a kindergarten yet.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > I guess somebody, somewhere, will have to start getting really<br>>> > serious about the Pirate stuff...<br>>> ><br>>> > ... or registering the brand while it has no content worth<br>>> > preserving will be a futile game.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Antonio.<br>>> ><br>>> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:58:57 +0200<br>>> > From: kenneth@pirata.cat<br>>> > To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>>> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some<br>>> > thoughts for the mailing list<br>>> ><br>>> > This is bullshit, moreover when very few people keep on harassing<br>>> > and insulting anyone not agreeing with them here.<br>>> > This isn't a swarm, it's a melting pot of activists from parties at<br>>> > a diferent stage of maturity + a bunch of fools/morons.<br>>> > So, if this list can't be that swarm, let's start a new and fresh<br>>> > one (as you suggested in your swarmwise).<br>>> > If you want to relly me, add me to cc, as I have just<br>>> > unsubscribed.It's sad, I've been in this mailing list since 2009,<br>>> > but right now it's just a piece of shit. This "swarm" is dead.<br>>> > Regards,<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Kenneth<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > -------- Missatge original --------<br>>> > De: "Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)" <rick.falkvinge@piratpartiet.se><br>>> > Data: 15/06/2013 14:23 (GMT+01:00)<br>>> > A: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>>> > <pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net><br>>> > Assumpte: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts<br>>> > for the mailing list<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>>> > Hash: SHA1<br>>> ><br>>> > Dear colleagues,<br>>> ><br>>> > I read the notice of a formal complaint about this channel. It was not<br>>> > set up to be a moderated channel, nor is it one. Therefore, a formal<br>>> > complaint is kind of an oxymoron as there are no formal rules to base<br>>> > a complaint on.<br>>> ><br>>> > After all, rules that cannot reasonably be enforced are not rules you<br>>> > want to have. You cannot keep somebody from posting to an open list,<br>>> > and openness is a virtue. The alternative would be moderating posts<br>>> > and/or participants, and that's not who we are; that's not the swarm<br>>> > way of collaborating.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Instead, I'd like to remind everybody about two important principles:<br>>> ><br>>> > - - Attention is reward.<br>>> > - - If you see something you don't like, contribute with something<br>>> > you do like.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > ATTENTION IS REWARD: If you give somebody attention for a behavior,<br>>> > you will reinforce that behavior, whether the behavior is something<br>>> > you want to see more or less of. This means that giving attention to<br>>> > things you dislike is inherently self-defeating, as they will be<br>>> > nurtured by your attention.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, CONTRIBUTE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO<br>>> > LIKE: This is closely related to the Law of Two Feet. We're a<br>>> > meritocracy where we're dependent on many people trying many different<br>>> > things. Leadership with us is not achieved by vote or appointment, but<br>>> > by taking an initiative and letting others follow that initiative of<br>>> > their own free will. Disliking an initiative is fine, but criticizing<br>>> > the initiative from that emotion misses the point - being pioneers, we<br>>> > must necessarily try many paths, and many of them will be dead ends,<br>>> > but we don't know that before trying them. The more paths we try, the<br>>> > more ways of success we'll find. Therefore, the proper response to<br>>> > seeing somebody walk down a path you don't believe in is to walk down<br>>> > your own path that you believe more in.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > (As a final plug, these and many more principles are covered more<br>>> > in-depth in my book Swarmwise, which covers my leadership experiences<br>>> > taking the PPSE from nothing into the European Parliament. Five<br>>> > chapters have been published so far, and you can read them here:<br>>> ><br>>> > <br>>> http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/<br>>> ><br>>> > )<br>>> ><br>>> > Cheers,<br>>> > Rick<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > PS: On the rare occasion, I have seen disrespect against fellow<br>>> > activists on this mailing list, and I never think that's ok. Whether<br>>> > to call it out or not is a judgment call on a case-by-case basis, but<br>>> > that will not be done by the mailing list maintainers in that role.<br>>> > See the two names as technical administrators of the mailing list<br>>> > server, and not enforcers of any kind of social rules.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > - --<br>>> > Rick Falkvinge<br>>> > Founder of the first Pirate Party<br>>> > Piratpartiet SE<br>>> ><br>>> > @Falkvinge<br>>> > +46708303600<br>>> ><br>>> > Blog, bio and press photos at http://falkvinge.net/photos-bio/<br>>> ><br>>> > My mails are always digitally signed. If you get a mail that isn't, it<br>>> > was not sent by me.<br>>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)<br>>> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/<br>>> ><br>>> > iEYEARECAAYFAlG8XLUACgkQ7pnTrWI4jx2N6gCgir2luXwVjBJmicL/9LbwM5fo<br>>> > yB0AoIAsEPMHXT7oizc1rJ7O2zSA9No0<br>>> > =+ojY<br>>> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>>> > ____________________________________________________<br>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>>> > pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>>> ><br>>> > ____________________________________________________<br>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>>> > pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>><br><br><br></body>