<div dir="ltr">in-line answered.<br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 16 June 2013 00:47, Muriel Rovira Esteva <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:muriel@pirata.cat" target="_blank">muriel@pirata.cat</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear Anouk,<br><br>This list is for pirates. It's not the outer world nor the corridors of a
Parliament. It should be a friendly environment. This is our discussion
space, where we should be welcoming, motivating and encouraging newly
arrived pirates. Shy and intimidated people may have very good ideas or
insights that the whole movement can benefit from.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hence I asked, but a little footnote, even being very shy or timid, if one never speaks out, you (in general) got a (common) personality problem to deal with.<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>We do not need every single pirate helping us to change society or working for our cause to be at the front line shouting and speaking out loud, fighting within a harsh environment of old school politicians. Everyone has its place. Successful teamwork means that every individual should be fulfilling different and complementary tasks. <br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Precisely, 'we' are still trying to arrive at this working model/principle. So assuming that 'we' are already at this state is a fallacy (which is actually the core problem! Hence the returning kindergarten remark).<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>If we select only one kind of personality traits, and we only encourage a kind of person to get in our team (call it enduring or whatever), we're very likely to loose a great deal of our potential and the insights that you get when you talk to people that are very different from you... I don't know, perhaps they would be able to tell, for instance, why is the movement not as successful sometimes as you would like it to be. <br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>You gave yourself the answer just before :) TEAMWORK, we all have different talents learn to use them instead of trying to be this omnipotent 'superpirate'. And YES we do need people at the political front that can endure foul attacks !!!<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>Additionally, I do not see as our duty (nor understand this obsession) with toughening up people who may temptatively come here to see what the pirates are about, and which may be willing to volunteer part of their time to the project, if the thing is appealing enough to them. Last time I checked this wasn't the mailing list of a military camp.<br>
</blockquote><div><br><a href="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu">http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu</a><br><b>It is said that if you <a href="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Knowledge" title="Knowledge">know</a> your <a href="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Enemies" title="Enemies">enemies</a>
and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if
you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and
lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be
imperiled in every single battle.<br><br></b></div><div>Life itself is a war until we abandon the notion of peace and war ! Hide and duck is a very bad advise from the fifties to protect yourself from a nuclear attack. If an attack is imminent, don't go in denial because you will suffer the consequences.<br>
<br></div><div>Is the Pirate Party not the result of a foul attack at pirate bay ? Are pirates at peace with this ? I do not think so.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>I also think that we're plural (good thing!), and understand that some very valuable people with good ideas will not know how to express their thoughts in a different way (call it soft or respectful). And because I don't want to miss their insights either, that is why I think an unmoderated list should be mantained as well.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>Why does anyone shy would like to expose him/herself to an international scene ? This is a<i> contradictio in terminis</i>.<br></div><div>These pirates can function perfectly at a local level.<br><br> I am agreeing that a 'safe' mail list could help but frankly I doubt it.<br>
</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br></div><div>Why should we limit ourselves to one way or the other? Don't you think that the more ways we have to communicate the better? </div><div><br></div><div>Why do some care so much that other people talk among themselves with a set of rules, if they please to do so? Isn't forcing this no-rules rule on them a way of limiting their expression?<div>
<br></div><div>Best regards,<br><br> Muriel<div><div class="h5"><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You are a good person, thanks for your feedback. Know your friends.<br></div><div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div><div class="h5"><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/6/15 Anouk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jakobsheep@gmail.com" target="_blank">jakobsheep@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Hi Muriel and others,<br>
I like to point out that /anyone/ feeling intimidated should/must speak out loud. For how do we know that this is happening ?</p>
<p>Secondly, how does one survive at the real political scene ? If we can't deal with straigth forward problems as Antonio has argumented, what chance do the pirates have in public functions ? <br>
I still see his arguments on the table not being handled well. Kindergarten is unfortunately an good metaphore, and I like to add, without supervision. (although I like to point out that I also do see progress). Unfortunately sometimes things have to go worse before things improve. (It is called, everybody has to reinvent that same wheel)<br>
This is my opinion and I do not experience the discussions as intolerable, au contraire. I get more and more insights in the persons that shout and curse. This is how they profile themselves, then that is how they are. The truth (with humans) is more often ugly then beautiful, unfortunately. Deal with it rather then keeping it at a distance.</p>
<span><font color="#888888">
<p>Anouk<br>
</p></font></span><div><div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 15, 2013 11:03 PM, "Muriel Rovira Esteva" <<a href="mailto:muriel@pirata.cat" target="_blank">muriel@pirata.cat</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Hello,<div><br></div><div>I fail to see how leaving this list as it is, and open a new one for people who likes to discuss differently is censoring anyone in any way. :)<br><br>In any case, it would be all the contrary, it would give the oportunity to all those who may feel a bit intimidated here to say something to speak their mind and participate.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div> <br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div>