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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Thank you, Nuno. Very telling this time.<br><br>So, pretty much... if it does not have "leaders" in it it is not official?<br><br>And nobody can say a word in these lists without being an accredited leader, just as I was phisically prevented from getting on the mic in Brussels because nobody from the "leaders" wanted me to mention what had to be said... part of what is considered shit and spam on this list?<br><br>I guess the few ethicless apparatchik that run PPI since it started can keep the empty embarassing bag it has become...<br><br>The bureaucrats that run the "official channels" do not care how the kids play :) .<br><br><br>Antonio.<br><br><br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:02:31 +0100<br>From: nuno.cardoso@pp-international.net<br>To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] FORMAL COMPLAINT ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATION/MODERATION OF PPI MAILING LISTS<br><br><div dir="ltr">Considering that:<div><ul><li>this list is not run by the PPI;</li><li>this list is not an official communication channel of the PPI, it has pp-leaders list for that;<br></li><li>this list is not an official discussion channel of the PPI, it has pp-leaders.discussion for that;</li>
<li>this list is not an official operations coordination channel of the PPI, it has pp-ops for that;</li><li>this list is not an official channel of the PPI in any way, it has yet other specific lists; </li></ul>
</div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">Ignoring PPI because of it seems nonsensical...</div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">What if in Finland some list called pp-finland existed that, despite not being run by PP Finland, would grab the attention of all Finns and, because it was "filled to the brim with personal issues that should be kept in personal mails and all kinds of useless bullshit", would make everyone ignore PP Finland? What would be your opinion on that?</div>
<div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">On a broader level, to all PP's, if a PPI member can't cope with this non-PPI list, instead of ignoring PPI because of this list it should ignore this list because of PPI!</div>
<div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">If anything this unmoderated list serves as an escape valve for individuals and all their "kinds of useless bullshit" not to contaminate the official channels of PPI.</div>
<div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">Furthermore PPI needs it's members not to ignore it because PPI IS it's members! PP's ignoring PPI is only helping it degrade.</div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">
<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">And don't think that making a new PPI would fix it, because the fundamental problem of individuals and their bullshit will not go away, it will just migrate it's focus and attach itself to it's new victim.</div>
<div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">Creating Pirate Parties to <b>fix a broken political system from within</b> is what we signed up to do, in opposition to those who just <b>ignore</b> politics or those who cry revolution to <b>start from scratch</b>. If when faced with problems in PPI we just <b>ignore</b> it and some even consider to <b>start from scratch</b>, what does that tell about their ability to do what they have signed to do on the first place?</div>
<div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">Just my 2 cents of useless bullshit food for though ;)</div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">Pirate regards,</div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">
Nuno<br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Jyri Hämäläinen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Wildfinn@gmail.com" target="_blank">Wildfinn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">This mailing list is one of the reasons why the pirate party of Finland pretty much completely ignores the PPI. It's 99% just trolls and hotheads in South-European parties fighting over everything and anything they can pick a fight over. It's filled to the brim with personal issues that should be kept in personal mails and all kinds of useless bullshit.<div>
<br></div><div>I'd prefer moderation, but not paying any attention whatsoever to PPI works too in the mean while.</div></div><div><div class="h5"><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">2013/6/22 Jelena Jovanovic <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jelena.the.one@gmail.com" target="_blank">jelena.the.one@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">This is exactly what is going to happen.<br>
Honestly, i would not be happy to see anyone stepping out from this list because some people have problems that apparently escalate on ppint mailing list. Also i would like to avoid denying ppl to be exactly who they are. And i apologize for pprs contribution to the negative things here, we all slip off and get into the fight, its human. But dont be discouraged by that :) the only cure is to use ppint for good things as well and not let it be dominated by internal fights. So called trolling is usually exression of extremely strong emotions and problems that are not solved.<br>
I would advise to all of you to keep using this list, and use it more....no forks needed, maybe a slight moderation with only ground rules, related to offensive wording and similar stuff<br>
Brgds<br>
Jelena jovanovic, pprs<BR><div><div>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Jun 15, 2013 3:06 AM, "Travis McCrea" <<a href="mailto:me@travismccrea.com" target="_blank">me@travismccrea.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA512<br>
<br>
This is the internet, there so many people and communication is so easy<br>
that if we don't enjoy the company of certain people or groups we can<br>
easily fork and move on with our own group.<br>
<br>
Aftermath wrote:<br>
> Why dont we just deal with it.<br>
><br>
> This is the internet. Its not daycare. Bad things are said. Deal with<br>
> it.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Maja Asanovic <<a href="mailto:asanovic09@gmail.com" target="_blank">asanovic09@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:asanovic09@gmail.com" target="_blank">asanovic09@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Why don't we just migrate to a new list and leave this one to the<br>
> trolls?<br>
><br>
> Or make a a rule that if someone says 3 times something irritating<br>
> like calling somebody "a boy" or offensive he/she simply gets kicked<br>
> off the list.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Antonio Garcia<br>
> <<a href="mailto:ningunotro@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ningunotro@hotmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ningunotro@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ningunotro@hotmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Showing you can be the bad boy once more Kenneth?<br>
><br>
> Your lack of basic decency, and that of too many spineless others...<br>
><br>
> ... is a disgrace for the whole Pirate Movement.<br>
><br>
><br>
> No fucking little detail you are not ready to exploit to your<br>
> advantage, huh?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> What is your agenda, boy?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Antonio.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 22:50:42 +0200 From: <a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat" target="_blank">kenneth@pirata.cat</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:kenneth@pirata.cat" target="_blank">kenneth@pirata.cat</a>> To:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>>;<br>
> <a href="mailto:co-chairmen@pp-international.net" target="_blank">co-chairmen@pp-international.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:co-chairmen@pp-international.net" target="_blank">co-chairmen@pp-international.net</a>>; <a href="mailto:board@pp-international.net" target="_blank">board@pp-international.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:board@pp-international.net" target="_blank">board@pp-international.net</a>>; <a href="mailto:coa@pp-international.net" target="_blank">coa@pp-international.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:coa@pp-international.net" target="_blank">coa@pp-international.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: [pp.int.general] FORMAL COMPLAINT ABOUT THE<br>
> ADMINISTRATION/MODERATION OF PPI MAILING LISTS<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> For months we've been flooded by mails from a bunch of guys<br>
> with too much<br>
>> spare time, working towards their own private agenda, without<br>
> any kind of<br>
>> support from their respective parties.<br>
>><br>
>> This is fucking unacceptable.<br>
>><br>
>> I am really angry with whoever is responsible for this mailing<br>
> list.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> These people are REGULARLY BULLING AND HARASSING OTHER<br>
> PIRATES, and NOBODY<br>
>> DOES A FUCKING THING IN ORDER TO STOP THIS:<br>
>><br>
>> I am one of the regularly insulted ones, and this is gonna be<br>
> my crusade<br>
>> until something is done.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Options/Alternatives:<br>
>><br>
>> - Push away people disturbing this mailing list (people<br>
> without any kind<br>
>> of support from their respective parties) - Create a new (open)<br>
>> mailing list where ONLY PEOPLE<br>
> AUTHORIZED BY THEIR<br>
>> RESPECTIVE PARTIES CAN JOIN<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Otherwise this isn't the place where we could talk, share,<br>
> coordinate and<br>
>> make anything at all, and I loved the time when we could did<br>
> so here<br>
>> (remember Wikileaks-TF or MENA-countries-TF?).<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> This is a formal complaint, and I want a formal reply from<br>
> Bureau and CoA<br>
>> at least.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Kenneth Peiruza<br>
>> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties<br>
>> International - General Talk<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
>><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties<br>
> International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties<br>
> International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties<br>
> International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
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<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div><br>____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
<br>____________________________________________________
Pirate Parties International - General Talk
pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net
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