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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Thijs, the same can be said of liberals... :) .<br><br>I'm going to add a bit to my extreme unpopularity, and say something about that basic unconditional income that is not going to please the simple majority...<br><br>Considering the actual equilibrium in society... that measure is best to be compared with the unconditional bailout of the too big to fail banks.<br><br>Why? Because it takes tax money that comes from working class people that are the ones that do not know how to evade them... and distributes it in such a way that it will serve the elites purpose.<br><br>Forcing the bank bailouts has served the purpose of burdening governments with unbearable debt service, to advance the manoeuvrability of corporate entities.<br><br>Installing an inconditional basic income will achieve something similar.<br><br>How? First, because the money needed to pay for this can come but from taxes, and the big corporations damn well know how to dodge taxes... so they will not be contributing that much. Who is left to do so... the working class.<br><br>Second, because it makes wage slaves cheaper for the big corporations. That is why liberals and neo-liberals will be seen lobbying for it besides the ignorant working class... that should be a telltale sign and explain why lobbying for it by pirate parties seems to be so easy as everyone agrees :( .<br><br>Imagine that today the income you need to get to the end of the month without too many troubles lies around 1.500¤ (I can do without fancy things, I'm squatting around with 0¤ of income for too long now). People refuse to work for less because it is silly not to get to the end of the month with the pay you get, so corporations have to offer at least 1.500¤ to get people working.<br><br>Now, imagine we create an inconditional basic income, very, very basic, to allow people to get to the end of the month even without a single day of work.<br><br>Of course, at that time, most of the basic products needed for bare survival will be subsidised by the state, if they are not already today. Bread, potatoes, chicken and pork meat, electricity, winter heating,... will be sold for 2/3 of their production cost... the difference being paid by the state, from... collected taxes (paid by the workers that can not evade them).<br><br>So, lets say that 1.000¤ per month will be enough to get to the end of the month without a single day of work done.<br><br>The moment that our (neo)liberal friends help us win the vote for the basic unconditional income of 1.000¤ for all...<br><br>... the state will have been saddled with the burden to collect the necessary money through taxes only the working class is going to pay. Like for the banking bailout ;( .<br><br>... and when the running contract for the labour of those that earn 1.500¤ a month is over... they are going to be offered a new contract... for not more than 500¤ a month. Because liberals and neoliberals know what they care for. People will earn enough to get to the end of the month just like before, 1.500¤, but taxes and contributions to social welfare from both companies and workers will come only from the 500¤ of wage, instead of the previous 1.500¤.<br><br>The costs for companies will have dropped spectacularly, both in salary and taxes...<br><br>... and the state will be left breathless, as with the banking bailout, trying to find where to get an income from to pay for it all.<br><br><br>So, I can imagine the enthusiasm for the measure from a liberal and neo-liberal perspective... but I need a lobotomy to forget it will fuck the working class and the state in such a way that pirates should really be of the idiot kind to push for it.<br><br>But I have experienced in the last General Assemblies of the PPI and what experience I have with the inner workings of quite some pirate parties...<br><br>... that the pirate movement has become an idiocracy at the service of some very neo-liberal sharks, or completely idiot people.<br><br><br>Please, please,... do argue.<br><br><br>Antonio. <br><br><br><div>> Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:36:14 +0200<br>> From: thijs.markus@piratenpartij.nl<br>> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] In order for another world to become a reality<br>> <br>> That's how you learn Anouk, never argue with a communist. He'll lock <br>> you in the chains of his labour scheme under the promise of liberating <br>> you from a marginally different one. And should you call him out on this <br>> basic flaw of his 19th century ideology, you're of the enemy and he'll <br>> attack you personally, with even less logic ability than he displayed <br>> previously.<br>> <br>> So yes, good luck getting him to see the finer points of technological <br>> unemployment. Like his so-called opponents he'd love to wrap all human <br>> activity and interpersonal relationships in a vast economical behemot <br>> which he'll then dare call society, just so everyone is employed still <br>> and his antique ideology is proven true.<br>> <br>> Laboratorio Eudemonia schreef op 04.07.2013 09:43:<br>> > On 03/07/2013 at 11.52 Anouk wrote:<br>> ><br>> >>Pirately,<br>> >>Anouk<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > "Pirately"?<br>> ><br>> > I have scarce news of true Pirates who defended State men :)<br>> ><br>> > But I know that even in the time of the struggle for the vote to<br>> > women some of them, instead to support those were hardly struggling <br>> > to<br>> > obtain this right, took the contrary part.<br>> ><br>> > Therefore it is perfectly normal that, while I am trying to make<br>> > recognize the right for all human beings to share the RES PUBLICAS of<br>> > their respective Countries, some people succeed to find a lot of <br>> > vacue<br>> > objections. Against their same interest of citizens.<br>> ><br>> > It is perfectly normal that some "pirates" can with conviction pursue<br>> > the shared and open system design in hardware and software but do not<br>> > succeed to see the importance of a shared and open Public system.<br>> ><br>> > It is strange but it is normal.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Danilo D'Antonio<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > ____________________________________________________<br>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> > pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> <br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br></div> </div></body>
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