<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/12 HerNenya <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hernenya@gmail.com" target="_blank">hernenya@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>+1 Jack. I completely agree with you
about this.<br>
<br>
In Galicia we are studying closely this topic. Some of us are
convinced that could provide benefits to society. Others of us are
still not quite sure to defend Basic Income because of the many
reasons that are exposed here and many more that could be or not
be seen in this thread.<br>
<br>
I think politics and economics are subjects that go together and
you cannot separate. Any point of the 'true core pirate ideology'
has its economics impact although anyone like it or not to admit
it.<br>
<br>
If we are political parties, we should be able to talk about
economics and include this item in our programs. <b>This is my
personal point of view, not of the pirate party that I belong
nor the spanish confederation.</b></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>In our party we decided to talk about it, vote when is necessary to decide something on economics, but not to tie ourselves into any kind of economic point of view. If tomorrow the decision we took is proven not valid, or the world changes making it not usefull anymore, we can change it for another decissions. Thus not betraing our own principles. The idea is talking about it, deciding things, but not to tie ourselves to our own resolutions regarding economy decitions. </div>
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To unify economic principles at this level (internationaly) is
really complicated since the reality of the countries, estates,
etc are quite different. For example, the level of corruption of
southern Europe demands certain decisions to be taken that in some
other estates cannot understand, share, etc. <br>
<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Exactly, that`s why I believe each pirate party must take its own decissions about it. And tell the world we chose to use different solutions for different problems in different countries.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Betiel</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div>
Saúde! P-)<br>
<pre cols="72">Isabel Fernandez
GPG EA63DF8E
<a href="http://www.piratasdegalicia.org" target="_blank">www.piratasdegalicia.org</a></pre>
El 12/07/13 19:16, Jack Allnutt escribió:<br>
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On 12/07/2013 18:04, Cal. wrote:
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<pre>On 12 July 2013 18:58, Jack Allnutt <a href="mailto:j.allnutt@pirateparty.org.uk" target="_blank"><j.allnutt@pirateparty.org.uk></a> wrote:
</pre>
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<pre>If we're talking about a minimum wage, it's not that simple. Wage
slavery is a real problem. Plus there's then the problem of it being
more economical to *not* work, and collect unemployment benefits etc.
If we're talking about having a job *in addition to* receiving a basic
income, then I think your right. The incentive is that you get extra
money for working whatever the wage is.
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<pre>yep. that's what basic income is.
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<pre>Indeed, I just wanted to clarify as the issue got confused slightly
further up the chain :)
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<pre>I guess the typical rebuttal is that the price of labour is no longer
distorted by a minimum wage and that labour will be priced according to
supply and demand on the labour market just like any other good or
</pre>
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<pre>service.
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<pre>One of the ideas behind a basic income is that it would *intentionally*
reduce the supply of labour in to the market. It frees people up to
invest their time and energy into causes that don't (immediately) return
a profit. Charities and other voluntary projects, politics, caring for
relatives or friends, education, entrepreneurship etc.
</pre>
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<pre>that could be somewhat difficult, relating to the effective amount of
that basic income.
</pre>
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<pre>It is a difficult problem to be solved. One can't set the rate too high
(no incentive to work) or too low (unable to survive) but I think that,
in principle, it's a problem that *can* be solved.
</pre>
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<pre>leftists don't like unemployed people.
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<pre>That's a very broad statement.
I consider myself economically left-leaning and under the *current*
economic system, unemployment *is* bad. But under a UBI system, the
whole concept of unemployment changes.
- -- Jack
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