Then it is necessary to make clear that from that debate no decision, formal or informal, aroused about the matter at hand within PP ES. It was considered a matter well worth of debate, and it was even proposed to include it in the electoral program, but the proposal did not work. A small part of the affiliates was for it, even enthusiastically, but most of them felt the matter was either outside the scope of the current discussions (that was 2010, things have changed since) or were directly against it, specially since the "universality" of the rent was considered in the widest possible terms.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/14 Francisco George <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:francisco.george@gmail.com" target="_blank">francisco.george@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Daniel,<div><br></div><div>The Basic income was debated in October/November of 2010. I personally bring the debate in because as I told Koen I'm Belgian and studied the Vivant movement when I was still in Belgium.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The first debate left a 50-50 division in the PPES and at that time didn't make it to the party program</div><div><br></div><div>Earlier this year, if I remember well there was another debate about supporting the BasicIncome.eu initiative and this time a majority of affiliates did approved it. I think you should revised mail archives because it happened when you were out on a trip.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best regards</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Francisco</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
2013/7/13 Daniel Riaņo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:danielrr2@gmail.com" target="_blank">danielrr2@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sorry to disagree, but I don't think PP-ES has any position on the subject, certainly not one that has ever been subject to informed debate or resolution by any representative body.<br>
<br>But this is certainly a very interesting subject, both from the philosophical and the practical sides. As of the latter, I don't know of any study of whether a universal basic income is economically feasible in Spain (it is always a good point to estimate economical viability of such big projects before trying it) or in Europe. But the philosophical questions are probably even more worthy of consideration within the pirate framework to test what kind of anthropology is ours.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>Daniel</font></span><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/13 Francisco George <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:francisco.george@gmail.com" target="_blank">francisco.george@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">The PP-ES stands in favour of Basic Income.<div><br></div><div>Actually there are already states that have BI implented.</div><div><br></div><div>Alaska</div><div>Some Arab emirates, but just for their nationals(emigrants are not included)</div>
<div><br></div><div>20 years ago a political party in Belgium started to defend this and got some hype.</div><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivant" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivant</a><br></div>
<div><a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/vivant/60132009232" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/pages/vivant/60132009232</a><br>
</div><div><a href="http://www.vivanteurope.org/?lang=en" target="_blank">http://www.vivanteurope.org/?lang=en</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>As he was founded by a Millionaire <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet</a> in Belgium and due to their alliance with Liberals, they have been considered a Center-right movement, </div>
<div><br></div><div>It is classified as "Progressive Liberalism" also known as "Social Liberalism" <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_liberalism" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_liberalism</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>Roland Duchatelet, it's founder, was Belgian Senator from 2007 > 2011 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet</a></div>
<div>
<br></div><div><br></div><div>The mixed(french/german) public tv has a special dossier about it <a href="http://future.arte.tv/fr/sujet/le-revenu-de-base-promesse-dun-avenir-meilleur" target="_blank">http://future.arte.tv/fr/sujet/le-revenu-de-base-promesse-dun-avenir-meilleur</a> (sorry just available in German or French)</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/13 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:illunatic@greenpirate.org" target="_blank">illunatic@greenpirate.org</a>></span><div><div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Kind of have to agree with that as I recently cut back to two days at my current job because I need more time available to do other things which pay more. They job was more than minimum wage, but not enough to fit my lavish lifestyle (sarcasm).<br>
<br>
Quoting Antonio Garcia <<a href="mailto:ningunotro@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ningunotro@hotmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
Oh, yeah! Instead of being 50 units short to get to the end of the month, people would prefer to have nothing at all. Might be an option for people that do not accumulate fixed cost in their aim of running their life, like mortgages and such.<br>
<br>
I love intelligent comment and cheer it when I see some ;) .<br>
<br>
<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
From: <a href="mailto:me@travismccrea.com" target="_blank">me@travismccrea.com</a><br>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:40:15 -0400<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@<u></u>lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?<br>
<br></div>
I have never heard of this argument? in reality it has no basis. If a company was paying you less than basic income, you would just not take the job, or you could quit the job.<div><br>
<br>
On 2013-07-12, at 10:06 AM, Cal. wrote:<br>
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> On 12 July 2013 15:38, Betiel <<a href="mailto:betielix@gmail.com" target="_blank">betielix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Personally I believe having a basic income helps to avoid abuses from some<br>
>> unethical companies.<br>
><br>
> It depends. A common leftist objection on basic income is that it<br>
> enables "unethical evil company" to offer jobs for very very very low<br>
> wages.<br>
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