<div dir="ltr">Koen,<div><br></div><div>:-) Yes you are right I'm outside Belgium, but I'm Belgian(Liege) that's why I know about Vivant :-). They came out before I left Belgium in 1999 :-)</div><div><br></div>
<div>Best regards to my Country and to the City of Antwerp.</div><div><br></div><div>Francisco</div><div>(Jean-François George)</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/14 Koen De Voegt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:koen.devoegt@antwerpsepiraten.be" target="_blank">koen.devoegt@antwerpsepiraten.be</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>I'm surprised to hear that people
outside of Belgium ever hear about Vivant. I used to vote for them
when the where an independent party. The have however merged into
the liberal party in Flanders and by doing so became quit
irrelevant. Some former Vivant members are now in PPBE. So I
believe Basic income has a good chance of making it into our
program.<br>
<br>
Koen <br>
<br>
Op 13-07-13 08:08, Francisco George schreef:<br>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">The PP-ES stands in favour of Basic Income.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Actually there are already states that have BI implented.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alaska</div>
<div>Some Arab emirates, but just for their nationals(emigrants
are not included)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>20 years ago a political party in Belgium started to defend
this and got some hype.</div>
<div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivant" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivant</a><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/vivant/60132009232" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/pages/vivant/60132009232</a><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.vivanteurope.org/?lang=en" target="_blank">http://www.vivanteurope.org/?lang=en</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As he was founded by a Millionaire <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet</a> in
Belgium and due to their alliance with Liberals, they have
been considered a Center-right movement, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is classified as "Progressive Liberalism" also known as
"Social Liberalism" <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_liberalism" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_liberalism</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Roland Duchatelet, it's founder, was Belgian Senator from
2007 > 2011 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet</a></div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The mixed(french/german) public tv has a special dossier
about it <a href="http://future.arte.tv/fr/sujet/le-revenu-de-base-promesse-dun-avenir-meilleur" target="_blank">http://future.arte.tv/fr/sujet/le-revenu-de-base-promesse-dun-avenir-meilleur</a> (sorry
just available in German or French)</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/13 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:illunatic@greenpirate.org" target="_blank">illunatic@greenpirate.org</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Kind of have to agree with that as I recently cut back to
two days at my current job because I need more time
available to do other things which pay more. They job was
more than minimum wage, but not enough to fit my lavish
lifestyle (sarcasm).<br>
<br>
Quoting Antonio Garcia <<a href="mailto:ningunotro@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ningunotro@hotmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Oh, yeah! Instead of being 50 units short to get to the
end of the month, people would prefer to have nothing at
all. Might be an option for people that do not
accumulate fixed cost in their aim of running their
life, like mortgages and such.<br>
<br>
I love intelligent comment and cheer it when I see some
;) .<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
From: <a href="mailto:me@travismccrea.com" target="_blank">me@travismccrea.com</a><br>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:40:15 -0400<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Basic income - how does
that fit into the pirate ideology?<br>
<br>
</div>
I have never heard of this argument? in reality it has
no basis. If a company was paying you less than basic
income, you would just not take the job, or you could
quit the job.
<div><br>
<br>
On 2013-07-12, at 10:06 AM, Cal. wrote:<br>
<br>
> On 12 July 2013 15:38, Betiel <<a href="mailto:betielix@gmail.com" target="_blank">betielix@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>> Personally I believe having a basic income
helps to avoid abuses from some<br>
>> unethical companies.<br>
><br>
> It depends. A common leftist objection on basic
income is that it<br>
> enables "unethical evil company" to offer jobs
for very very very low<br>
> wages.<br>
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