<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I'm a bit late to this discussion, but have been arguing for an UBI as part of a pirate ideology inside the Swedish pp before. I find it interesting that it is once again being debated. Just the other day my attention was directed to this blog post on the subject: <a href="http://simulacrum.cc/2013/07/10/three-trends-that-push-us-towards-an-unconditional-basic-income/">http://simulacrum.cc/2013/07/10/three-trends-that-push-us-towards-an-unconditional-basic-income/</a><br>
<br></div><div>In any case, I was curious about how the debate has played out inside the various pirate parties? Last time I participated in the debate there was a "policy" to not take a stance in economic affairs. Which to me wasn't a problem seeing how UBI is basically an ethical issue in my mind, and the economics of it mostly an implementation detail.<br>
<br>Thus my take on the three bullets provided (keeping in mind that I'm Swedish, not Swiss, so have limited insight in the cultural issues involved) is full agreement on point number 1, not agreeing at all at point number 2, and thinking that point number 3 could very well be left to the implementers to decide.<br>
<br></div><div>The reason I'm not agreeing with point number 2 is that I believe the ethical principle behind UBI comes from defending the commons (the core of pirate ideology in my mind), not from taking a stance in welfare policies or how distribution of wealth as such.<br>
<br></div><div>Previously in this thread UBI was described as somewhat leftish, or some one put it "socialist/communist". Grounded in geolibertarianism or georgism, which I think is the correct basis for a pirate take on the issue, it could actually be seen as a very rightish thing.<br>
<br></div><div>My very short take on the issue is that UBI should be seen as compensation for transferring rights from the commons to the private. The UBI part being that in theory it should be paid to all commoners, but in practice a state may choose to tax the UBI so that only a fraction actually paid out.<br>
<br></div><div>Henry George and geo-libertarians focus on land, and land value rent, but I'm not sure it has to end there. In my mind any transfer from the commons to the private (i.e. copyright, patents, emission quotas and so forth) if to be viewed as ethical at all needs to be compensated in a similar way.<br>
<br></div><div>BR,<br></div><div>John<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Charly Pache <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:charly.pache@gmail.com" target="_blank">charly.pache@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Here the swiss example on what will be added to the constitution if the citizen approve the basic income votation, it's quite simple, then the parliament will have to write the corresponding laws (the whole transition process will take many years):<br>
<div style="font-family:Courier,'Courier New',mono;margin:20px;padding:10px 40px"><span lang="en"><span>The Constitution is</span> <span>amended as follows:</span><br>
<br><span>Art</span><span>.</span> <span>110a</span> <span>(new)</span> <span>unconditional basic</span> <span>income</span><br><br> 1. <span>The Confederation shall ensure</span> <span>the establishment of an</span> <span>unconditional basic income</span><span>.</span><br>
<br> 2. <span>The</span> <span>basic income</span> <span>should allow</span> <span>all</span> <span>people to lead</span> <span>a dignified life</span> <span>and to participate in</span> <span>public life.</span><br>
<br> <span>3. The law regulates</span> <span>such</span> <span>funding</span> <span>and the amount of</span> <span>basic income</span><span>.</span></span></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Daniel Riaño <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:danielrr2@gmail.com" target="_blank">danielrr2@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Which Pirate parties included the idea of a "basic income" in the core of its ideology and/or their electoral program? And which specific model of "basic income" was that?<br><br>To be able to talk about this subject meaningfully I think we should describe which model of basic income each has in mind.<br>
<br>Of course we can speak in pure philosophical terms without the need to refer to any specific model, but then we should start by defining the anthropological basis of "basic income".<br><br>best,<br><br>Daniel<div>
<div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">
2013/7/16 Zbigniew Łukasiak <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zzbbyy@gmail.com" target="_blank">zzbbyy@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">
Most of the voices here were in favour of Basic Income. The general<br>
public is probably much more reserved about it.<br>
<br>
We are a group selected for our attitude towards copyright, patents<br>
and privacy reforms - now we see that we share more than that. Why is<br>
that? What is the thing that links these subjects?<br>
</div><span><font color="#888888"><br>
Z.<br>
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<br></div></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr">societal activist @ <a href="http://utilopia.com" target="_blank">utilopia.com</a>, pirate party switzerland, <a href="http://ch-open.ch" target="_blank">ch-open.ch</a>, swiss entrepreneurship association and <a href="http://bien-ch.ch" target="_blank">bien-ch.ch</a></div>
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