<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Dear Carlo, I could subscribe almost 100% of every word you say... if only I could be sure you would admit where the application of these words would lead us if applied not only to this mailing list, where I know of course that you think I am the worst troll of all, but to ALL BEHAVIOUR SHOWN for at least THE LAST TWO YEARS...<br><br>... in the PPI, at member level, at Board level, and at Court of Arbitration level.<br><br>Lets appoint a honest and capable group of auditors, and let them moderate AND correct each and every error and abuse that has driven me so far off that I have other priorities than to contribute positive ideas to the Pirate Movement... INSIST ON THE AWFULL MESS BEING CLEANED UP... before anything positive can be thought of again.<br><br>Nobody throws pearls to the swines... one first does everything possible to be sure there are no swine in the Movement.<br><br>I have put ALL THE EVIDENCE TOGETHER, for easy access to all:<br><br><a href="http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/klarmachen-zum-kentern/" target="_blank">http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/klarmachen-zum-kentern/</a><br><a href="http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/when-pirates-do-prefer-censorship/" target="_blank">http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/when-pirates-do-prefer-censorship/</a><br><br>with a download link to the full evidence file: <br><br><a href="http://samedokan.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/infotothepress.jpg" target="_blank">http://samedokan.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/infotothepress.jpg</a> (just rename the .jpg to .zip)<br><br><br>Sad to say... I have identified a lot of German swine :(.<br><br><br>Are we ready to clean up the mess?<br><br>I would very much like to be able to enter "contribution mode" again, after a good barbecue with tasty swine :).<br><br><br><br>Antonio.<br>Member of the Board<br>Spanish Pirate Party<br><br><br><br><div>> Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 18:55:23 +0200<br>> From: lynX@pirate.my.buttharp.org<br>> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] R?ttning mitt?t, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list<br>> <br>> It's been almost a year, but since noone said what I have to say, I do it now.<br>> <br>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 02:23:17PM +0200, Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet) wrote:<br>> > After all, rules that cannot reasonably be enforced are not rules you<br>> > want to have. You cannot keep somebody from posting to an open list,<br>> <br>> That is a misconception. Rules of decency and respect of other people<br>> are very well reasonably enforceable. The PPI board could define clear<br>> rules of behaviour and have them respected by moderation. Even the<br>> school of anti-authoritarian thinking has developed rules of reasonable<br>> civic collaboration, here's an example:<br>> http://www.starhawk.org/activism/trainer-resources/consensus-nu.html <br>> I mean the part about electing a "vibes watcher" and having her or him<br>> stop "bad process" which in extreme cases must include moderation,<br>> otherwise the technique has no authority thus no effect.<br>> <br>> If even 1968's hippies have learned these basic rules of getting<br>> collaboration off the ground, why do we have to pretend we can<br>> invent something new and repeat exactly the same mistakes others<br>> have made before us?<br>> <br>> > and openness is a virtue. The alternative would be moderating posts<br>> > and/or participants, and that's not who we are; that's not the swarm<br>> > way of collaborating.<br>> <br>> Yes we rather degenerated into fighting without decency and respect<br>> for each other. Would be okay if you were proposing some technology to<br>> handle the problem, but like this you are trying to propose a new way<br>> to deal with problems that are thousands of years old, and have failed<br>> again and again - just recently in the 80s with the German Greens.<br>> <br>> If your idea was so bright, philosophers would have come up with it<br>> much earlier and the world would work in swarms instead of political<br>> parties.<br>> <br>> > Instead, I'd like to remind everybody about two important principles:<br>> > <br>> > - - Attention is reward.<br>> > - - If you see something you don't like, contribute with something<br>> > you do like.<br>> <br>> And then look how trolls puke all over it with non-sense populistic<br>> superficiliasm that somehow hurts even if it is completely baseless?<br>> <br>> > ATTENTION IS REWARD: If you give somebody attention for a behavior,<br>> > you will reinforce that behavior, whether the behavior is something<br>> > you want to see more or less of. This means that giving attention to<br>> > things you dislike is inherently self-defeating, as they will be<br>> > nurtured by your attention.<br>> <br>> You mean "don't feed the troll." That is flawed thinking as it only<br>> works for environments where there is a clearly defined leadership.<br>> In that case the leader ignores the troll and everything is fine.<br>> <br>> In a political party, ignoring the troll gives him or her a certain<br>> amount of victory and influences bystanders and newcomers that aren't<br>> fully understanding the issues. That is, with every last word the<br>> troll gets, his or her influence grows.<br>> <br>> So "don't feed the troll" does NOT work in democratic environments.<br>> Letting trolls act freely WILL damage the democratic process.<br>> Mailing lists are an ideal platform for trolls.<br>> <br>> > IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, CONTRIBUTE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO<br>> > LIKE: This is closely related to the Law of Two Feet. We're a<br>> > meritocracy where we're dependent on many people trying many different<br>> > things. Leadership with us is not achieved by vote or appointment, but<br>> > by taking an initiative and letting others follow that initiative of<br>> > their own free will. Disliking an initiative is fine, but criticizing<br>> > the initiative from that emotion misses the point - being pioneers, we<br>> > must necessarily try many paths, and many of them will be dead ends,<br>> > but we don't know that before trying them. The more paths we try, the<br>> > more ways of success we'll find. Therefore, the proper response to<br>> > seeing somebody walk down a path you don't believe in is to walk down<br>> > your own path that you believe more in.<br>> <br>> Pirates do that all the time, but most of the time it leads to ten<br>> pirates standing at the end of ten different paths. And what's worse:<br>> All of them have not properly analyzed the problem at hand if they<br>> simply followed their opinionistic instincts rather than engaging<br>> in a rational problem/solution-finding process as also described in<br>> the document i linked above.<br>> <br>> I can see it in most pirate parties: N people, firmly convinced that<br>> the PP needs to do AAA or BBB to fix all problems, and none of them<br>> having fully thought it through and based it upon the evidence of<br>> the problems at hand. But they are ready to fight to the blood for<br>> their convictions. Excuse me, this is not my idea of Pirates.<br>> <br>> The idea of "voting with your feet" may be easy to implement in<br>> real life, but it WILL NOT return the best possible results as it<br>> fosters populistic followerships instead of rationally and<br>> scientifically debating all options and collectively realizing what<br>> the best solution would be. A proper process of consensus-finding.<br>> (Which I also admit isn't really supported by Liquid Feedback, so<br>> you will want to choose other tools. We use Pads and Mumble<br>> meetings for now, then hope the remaining party folks will<br>> understand and appreciate what we bring to the assembly).<br>> <br>> > (As a final plug, these and many more principles are covered more<br>> > in-depth in my book Swarmwise, which covers my leadership experiences<br>> > taking the PPSE from nothing into the European Parliament. Five<br>> <br>> PPSE is a very special case. A PP that does not have a court of<br>> arbitration, where it is accepted that whoever is elected to the<br>> board will run the show, no questions asked. This is not the idea<br>> of a political party the other Pirate Parties would like to follow<br>> methinks.<br>> <br>> Also, it seems that the swarm effect has only worked once. It's<br>> like triggering a chain reaction of retweets. Somewhat superficial<br>> and short-lived.<br>> <br>> Although that doesn't mean I don't have a lot of respect for your<br>> achievements. For that moment it was perfect. I just don't think<br>> they are a blueprint for the movement in the long run.<br>> <br>> It's not sustainable.<br>> <br>> > chapters have been published so far, and you can read them here:<br>> > <br>> > http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/<br>> > <br>> > )<br>> > <br>> > Cheers,<br>> > Rick<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > PS: On the rare occasion, I have seen disrespect against fellow<br>> > activists on this mailing list, and I never think that's ok. Whether<br>> > to call it out or not is a judgment call on a case-by-case basis, but<br>> > that will not be done by the mailing list maintainers in that role.<br>> > See the two names as technical administrators of the mailing list<br>> > server, and not enforcers of any kind of social rules.<br>> <br>> And that is a bug that can easily be fixed.<br>> <br>> If the Pirate movement doesn't learn how to treat social problems<br>> appropriately, we will always drown our occasional successes in<br>> the destructive atmosphere that demotivates members, supporters,<br>> electorate, and as we have seen in Germany, even makes it into<br>> the media and becomes the #1 thing the Pirates are identified by.<br>> <br>> Incapacity of civilization.<br>> <br>> Luckily there is some 2% that sticks to us no matter how harsh<br>> we are to each other, but even that may vanish if you don't get<br>> our act together. And that could start with this mailing list.<br>> If the new PPI board doesn't think it's a good idea to have<br>> somebody vibes watch this list, then we can decide to have it<br>> happen by motion at the next GA.<br>> <br>> <br>> Cheers,<br>> your fan von lynX.<br>> <br>> <br>> P.S. This statement does not necessarily reflect the<br>> opinions of my employer, my wife or my political party.<br>> <br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br></div> </div></body>
</html>