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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Good luck with a catalan mailing list ;).<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: muriel@pirata.cat<br>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:45:26 +0200<br>To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>CC: pp-eu.euroliquid@lists.pp-international.net; j_kanev@arcor.de; ag-meinungsfindungstool@lists.piratenpartei.de; ag-liquid-democracy@lists.piratenpartei.de<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] [AG Liquid Democracy] Anybody checked out placeavote.com?<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Dear all,<br><br></div>We have created the following mailing list for the workgroup, so that we can start coordinating our efforts at an international level:<br><a href="https://xifrat.pirata.cat/gestors/mailman/listinfo/liquid-democracy-international" target="_blank">https://xifrat.pirata.cat/gestors/mailman/listinfo/liquid-democracy-international</a><br>
<br></div><div>Please note that the goal of this initial working group is not only to identify the best tools and/or coordinate international efforts to develop them, but also to discuss how we want liquid democracy to look and feel like, and how should we structure effective, transparent and horizontal liquid organisations. So it's not aimed only at people with a technical profile but everyone interested in this topic. So feel free to join if you are. :)<br>
<br>An international subgroup meant only for developers can of course always be created afterwards, if enough people is interested. :)<br></div><div>
<br></div>Greetings,<br><br></div> Muriel<br><br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">2014-06-02 22:00 GMT+02:00 Betiel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:betielix@gmail.com" target="_blank">betielix@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Please send me an invitation when available!<div>Thanks!!</div><div><br></div><div>Betiel</div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">2014-06-02 16:05 GMT-03:00 Dario Castañé <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dario@pirata.cat" target="_blank">dario@pirata.cat</a>></span>:<div><div class="h5"><br>
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Hi there :) In Brussels we met to talk about starting a group to<br>
develop tools around liquid organizations concept:<br>
<a href="http://thinkship.cc/en/introduction-to-liquid-organizations/" target="_blank">http://thinkship.cc/en/introduction-to-liquid-organizations/</a><br>
<br>
After EU elections we wanted to restart the project creating a mailing<br>
list so you are welcome to join us when it is available!<br>
<br>
El 02/06/14 20:45, Betiel escribió:<br>
<div>> I always wanted to create some collaborative project to do all the<br>
> tools we want just the way we want. I`m afraid I do not have time<br>
> to take the wheel and start it, neither to program them :( But, as<br>
> we have the pirate times, I believe creating a programming project<br>
> would be nice! So I throw the idea to the list.<br>
><br>
> Betiel<br>
><br>
><br>
> 2014-06-02 6:46 GMT-03:00 Martin Stolze <pirate.martin@stolze.cc>:<br>
><br>
>> Hey Jacob, Thanks a lot that is one exciting idea! I try to look<br>
>> at approaches mostly under the aspect of whether they can work<br>
>> and create traction. There are a few criteria that I found<br>
>> significant. Simplicity, is the most important of them. Think<br>
>> about limesurvey, the only tool producing any meaningful feedback<br>
>> as of now. Anything "Meinungsfindungstool" is like 10 Degrees<br>
>> more complex and for that it seems to be not implementable right<br>
>> now. - And who speaks German anyway? ;)<br>
>><br>
>> I like to think of it like layers of an onion. The first layer<br>
</div>>> must be very simple, not even as complex as ?yes? or ?no?. Just a<br>
<div>>> simple "like/+1" may suffice. This and a focus on seamless<br>
>> integration to wherever people spend their time must be the<br>
>> priority. Once somebody is hooked we can go down the rabbit whole<br>
</div>>> and do all the ?Meinungsfindung?. - It?s what I like about<br>
<div>>> Silicon Valley and <a href="http://placeavote.com" target="_blank">placeavote.com</a>, they keep it simple and<br>
>> deliver something appealing, the rest is iteration. In contrast,<br>
>> <a href="http://udeci.de" target="_blank">udeci.de</a> seems to take the opposite approach.<br>
>><br>
>> Best Regards Martin<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Jacob Kanev <<a href="mailto:j_kanev@arcor.de" target="_blank">j_kanev@arcor.de</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Martin,<br>
>>><br>
>>> you might also want to connect with the people from our "AG<br>
>>> Meinungsfindungstool" [1]. They're busy implementing something<br>
>>> called qKonsens, an online system that combines voting and<br>
>>> discussing.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm not sure how far it is, I haven't followed the discussion<br>
>>> in detail, but as far as I can see some good ideas have met<br>
>>> some programmers.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Lots of regards, Jacob.<br>
>>><br>
>>> [1] <a href="mailto:ag-meinungsfindungstool@lists.piratenpartei.de" target="_blank">ag-meinungsfindungstool@lists.piratenpartei.de</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Sunday 01 June 2014 20:49:39 Martin Stolze wrote:<br>
</div>>>>> ?? Hi Together, I keep arguing that a lack of infrastructure<br>
<div><div>>>>> is actually our biggest challenge. I guess, by now, it is<br>
>>>> safe to say that we don't actually<br>
>>> have<br>
>>>> the capacity to build something ample ourselves (Liquid<br>
>>>> Feedback, shitty mailing lists, limesurvey you name it). The<br>
>>>> way I see it is that we<br>
>>> simply<br>
>>>> don't manage to activate the talent that would be necessary<br>
>>>> to develop something pioneering. All the good ideas and<br>
>>>> innovations coupled with<br>
>>> our<br>
>>>> lofty idealism is worth nothing if nobody is pouring them<br>
>>>> into Java or<br>
>>> PHP.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The guys at <a href="http://placeavote.com" target="_blank">placeavote.com</a> have been gone through the news as<br>
>>>> they try<br>
>>> to<br>
>>>> shoehorn direct democracy into any form of electoral system<br>
>>>> by means of levering it out and replacing politicians with<br>
>>>> proxies that only relay decisions made by the corresponding<br>
>>>> constituency.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Of course implementation, especially in the US, is highly<br>
>>>> unlikely.<br>
>>> However<br>
>>>> using it at least internally to a certain degree or forking<br>
>>>> it a little<br>
>>> can<br>
>>>> be a chance for us to move out of the technological middle<br>
>>>> ages that we<br>
>>> are<br>
>>>> stuck in.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> It also seems not to be open source (yet?) but I am thinking<br>
>>>> more along<br>
>>> the<br>
>>>> lines of sweet-talking the guys behind it into working for us<br>
>>>> as some<br>
>>> kind<br>
>>>> of software consultants, maybe we can flatter them with a bit<br>
>>>> of the<br>
>>> cash<br>
</div></div>>>>> that should come our way in form of election refunds? ? :)?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> What do you think?<br>
>>><br>
>>> -- ____________________________ Pungenday, 7th of Confusion,<br>
>>> 3180. jacob kanev twitter: @j_kanev jabber:<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:jkanev@jabber.ccc.de" target="_blank">jkanev@jabber.ccc.de</a><br>
<div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
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