<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Betiel,<br></div><div><br>I agree with with you that the CoA doings and undoings concern us all. However, I don't think this is really the issue here. This matter has been already thoroughly discussed in the past years several times in this same list. I think the problem starts when you realise that it's not a discussion, but just a monologue. Then most people trying to explain their point of view gets tired of a discussion that they feel useless, and simply stop arguing.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The claim that the submission of Pirates de Catalunya was filled late, is completely
false. Otherwise, the board wouldn't have accepted it... (and I must add) obviously. :P<br></div><div><br></div><div><div>We submitted a request to change our membership and also proposed several alternative statutes changes, both. We thought that the statutes were insensitive to the different realities on how pirates want to (or can) organise in each state and thought (think) that every pirate community should be free to organise as they feel it's more efficient (or as their law allows them to). It was not only about us and the complex reality in Spanish politics or how we want to organise, there are countries where it is very difficult to fund a statewide party unless you have first parties in each region, which makes it virtually impossible for pirates in those countries to join the PPI as full members, regardless of how active and successful they are. We wanted to change the statutes to allow more flexibility for everyone, not only for us.</div>
<div><br></div></div><div>It
was possible to send the membership submission by email to the board or to fill
the wiki directly, and we did the first on the 16th of March of 2012 at 13.41 h, within the standard deadline. During the GA we realised that we were not called at any point to present our party in front of the assembly for the voting (although we were doubtful whether they were counting on us to present or not, because we were already a member, so it was only a membership change). When we realised that they were not counting on us, we note it to the board, they realised their mistake and fixed it immediately.<br>
</div>
<div><br></div><div>I will gladly answer in private any questions you might have.</div><div><br></div><div>Greetings,<br></div><div><br></div><div> Muriel </div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-06-05 20:19 GMT+02:00 Betiel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:betielix@gmail.com" target="_blank">betielix@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I totally disagree. <div>If the court of arbitration was not working properly, it concerns all of us. Therefore is not a matter for a private conversation.</div><div><br></div><div>Betiel</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-06-05 14:06 GMT-03:00 Andrianos Pappas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adrian.ppgr@gmail.com" target="_blank">adrian.ppgr@gmail.com</a>></span>:<div><div class="h5"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div>Wtf, this is all stuff for personal correspondence and talks, not for international lists. <br>
So if you could all just stfu, and focus on real life things, such as #resetthenet, it'd be awesome. <br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On June 5, 2014 7:53:03 PM EEST, Antonio Garcia <<a href="mailto:ningunotro@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ningunotro@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div dir="ltr"><div>> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 18:36:18 +0200<br></div><div><div>> From: <a href="mailto:zzbbyy@gmail.com" target="_blank">zzbbyy@gmail.com</a><br>> To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?<br>> <br>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:44 PM, Antonio Garcia <<a href="mailto:ningunotro@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ningunotro@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > Jesus, can I talk to someone competent?<br>> ><br>> > Do I really have to spell everything out not to waste six months explaining<br>> > the obvious?<br>> ><br>> > Can I take obvious things for obvious, or am I still talking in<br>
> > KinderGarten?<br>> <br>> I can see you are very frustrated - but I don't quite understand what<br>> you are referring to - sorry.<br>> <br>> Are you disagreeing with me - or with someone else in this thread?<br>
> <br>> ><br></div>> > I meant the FIRST ruling of the CoA ABOUT Pirates d
e
Catalunya full<div><div><br>> > membership, which is the subject WE were talking about. Not the first ever<br>> > ruling of that particular class of Court of Arbitration.<br>> ><br>> <br>> OK - I was also talking about this case - so I guess that burst of<br>
> frustration was about something else.<br><br>No, you weren't, damnit...<br><br>"Right - the Court of Arbitration ruling was wrong.<br><pre> <br>But in fact the CoA could not rule that the very GA that elected them<br>
is invalid. The only ruling it could logically do is to rule that this<br>is outside of its competence. And the current one also cannot nullify<br>the chain of events that lead to its election - because it would also<br>
make itself invalid and thus also the very decision."<br>
<br><br>That was about the supposition that the CoA can not rule as invalid the <br>occasion at which it has been elected because then it would rule itself <br>invalid. A very
simplistic line of thought in itself that has however <br>nothing to do with the ruling about the catalans.<br><br>Be more accurate, more inteligent, more competent. Or let somebody with <br>more cualifications handle this.<br>
<br>There is too much really basic stuff you do not seem to understand or<br>even pay attention to. You are not being a good ambassador for the <br>Pirate cause.<br></pre> <br> <br>> > Thay one Court of Arbitration has proven to be absolutely incompetent, all<br>
> > the way, in even the most trivial of rulings.<br>> ><br>> > By the way, the spokesperson for the actual one is not showing much aptitude<br>> > either, reading his comments:<br>> ><br>> > <a href="http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/when-pirates-do-prefer-censorship/" target="_blank">http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/when-pirates-do-prefer-censorship/</a><br>
> ><br>> > And I am still kept waiting. Luckily, I reduced possible damage to a minimum<br>> > as only Julia Reda got
a seat
in the European Parliament... results could<br>> > have been far better if I had worked towards good results rather than<br>> > against because nobody left me better options.<br>> <br>> So you admit that you are working against pirate parties political success?<br>
<br>You are a very bad craftsman trying to get a confession for the #Pirate #Inquisition :(.<br><br>I have already said what I have said, and done what I have done.<br><br> <br>> Cheers,<br>> Z.<br>> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
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