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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Citing Open Europe ;).<br><br>You italian "Pirates" have strange bedfellows at times.<br><br>And have yet to show any effort in Italy to be able to lecture anybody on pirate matters. Plus, for you... disintegrating in Germany.<br><br>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 11:09:29 +0200<br>> From: lynX@pirate.my.buttharp.org<br>> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> Subject: [pp.int.general] Update on Beppe Grillo and the 5 Star Movement<br>> <br>> Recent developments have answered some of the open questions some of<br>> you had in 2013 concerning the 5 Star Movement.<br>> <br>> By creating a rigged consultation, where only right-wing parties were<br>> available as options for the Italian M5S members to choose from, Mr<br>> Grillo has got himself his idea of support for joining UKIP's new EP<br>> group that intends to include white supremacists and other right-wing scum.<br>> <br>> http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.at/2014/06/grillo-joins-farage-but-ukips-group-in.html<br>> <br>> Even after several Grillo publications whitewashing UKIP as a nice<br>> and gentle political force, a grassroot consultation among M5S<br>> activists still shows the UKIP alliance at a third place after<br>> the idea of going with the Greens and Pirates. They would even<br>> rather join the radical left:<br>> <br>> http://my.pages.de/tmp/sondaggio-M5S-europa.jpg<br>> <br>> But on this important issue Mr Grillo has shown how his movement is<br>> not in charge of its own decisions. Neither the base with its oddly<br>> intransparent online consultations, nor the elected parliamentaries,<br>> who are regulated to be Mr Grillo's puppets and thus will not be very<br>> interesting conversation partners for our MEP Julia.<br>> <br>> We should learn from last year's attempts to detour us from our way<br>> of rightly keeping the distance from this formation. Those people<br>> who intensely expressed their bad judgements on the situation should<br>> refrain from furthering their strategic expertise to the Pirate<br>> movement in its future endaveaours.<br>> <br>> Of course they will, so it is up to us to muff our ears.<br>> <br>> PP-IT is still expecting the M5S to blow up, either by implosion<br>> or explosion, but somehow this thing is getting so gently<br>> perverted, that its activists are getting used to the heat instead<br>> of leapfrogging out of the bowl. Same so with the electorate.<br>> <br>> After reading Swarmwise I realize Casaleggio Associates has employed<br>> all the good ideas from it. They started 2009 just after the PP-SE's<br>> peak success, inviting Rick over for consultations, and got a scary <br>> lot of the things Rick describes right. But they also found subtle<br>> ways to give the "leadership" aspect a not so benevolent dictatorial<br>> taste. It's a very Italian thing - things you say and things you do<br>> not being at all in line, and hardly anyone complains, because it is<br>> so normal. Even the leaders of the "alternative left" do this, whatever<br>> its name of the week.<br>> <br>> <br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br> </div></body>
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