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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>So much for the "So, I keep watching this in good hope to find people to communicate with in fact-based, reasonable ways." I believed you were asking for :(.<br><br>Luckily, you put you being smart in a conditional form, so there is still an obvious and logical way out.<br><br>Since I am obviously smarter... once I get that far I will not only leave the party... but start burning all pirate ships down to the waterline to get rid of the shame of having been one of that hopeless bunch.<br><br>I think Elon Musk might just look away, not to be dragged into the actual Pirate kindergarten.<br><br><br>And IF you were a Pirate, Pirate Codex-wise... you'd do whatever logically and ethically possible... NOT to enter the black hole.<br><br>That, and nothing else, is WHAT I AM DOING.<br><br><br>Maybe, just maybe, I am trying VERY HARD to make it better, instead of just cowardly walk away like you suggest I should do.<br><br>It does not have to be that easy that you can spot results in a fortnight, and easygoing doctors loose more patients than tough ones.<br><br>Maybe the drama is that, not unlike you, I DO MIND.<br><br>But a mass dynamics given by a big majority of "I don't mind" (all kinds of illogical and unethical bullshit) is HARD TO FIGHT.<br><br>There are certainly a few bastard "profi" submarines... but they could not get their job done without an awful lot of rats and cockroaches.<br><br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: thomas.blechschmidt@piratenpartei-bayern.de<br>To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:30:59 +0200<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?<br><br><style><!--
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--></style><div class="ecxWordSection1"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">High Antonio,</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">I'm not sure if I understand what your are trying to say. But I don't see good will, adequate language, anything constructive nor orientation towards future in your posting. Nothing, that sounds optimistic. It seems you feel very uncomfortable with the pirates anywhere.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">If that would happen to me and I would be smart, I would leave the party and stay away from their tools as far as I could.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">That's so far what I can get from your words.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">I would have liked to propose the PPI membership of honor to Elon Musk for opening the TESLA patents.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">But at the moment this list seems to me as destroyed as many other of our tools. Annoying people with permanent bugs how bad, foolish, kiddy or whatever everybody here in pirate organizations is. Congratulations. That kind of people did have success in many cases. But at the end it all falls back on them.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">I don't mind. Maybe it end up in a black hole. So what? It is not u to you to judge it. Make it better and stop complaining. Go for ways to kick the submarines out of the party.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Thomas</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"> pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net [mailto:pp.international.general-b</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";">ounces@lists.pirateweb.net] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Antonio Garcia<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 24. Juni 2014 09:47<br><b>An:</b> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?</span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Hi, Thomas.<br><br>It is sadly a generalized sociological problem not only limited to pirate parties but universally present at our actual level of general development. It merely gets exacerbated to unsustainable levels in organizations that simply wish to work with an all-inclusive horizontal approach.<br><br>When all dropouts from anywhere else find that heaven... it becomes a hell usually called IDIOCRACY with very particular properties game-theorywise.<br><br>A tough ride for anyone too intelligent to give up reason... you do not get out of an idiocracy democratically without an awful lot of work by a determined, not too small crew (which I am sadly lacking in Spain, and can not see in Germany nor at the PPI, not to speak of every actual pirate party individually).<br><br>I already had solution proposals at the PPI GA of 2012 in Prague, but had to keep these for myself because the. Germans fucked up backing the Catalan kiddies because they were more fun... and afterwards the PPI Court of Arbitration choosed to be a clown circus.<br><br>Then the PPI Board became much like your actual kBuVo... fuck pirate legality... I want to have MY preferrefunnyny...<br>,<br>... and getting things back to normal takes forever. The serious give up... and the circus gets ever closer to a black hole.<br><br>There are ONLY intelligent solutions... but intelligence does not win the Democratic vote anymore.<br><br>A last try might be to let the fools implode the thing... like with the Spanish Pirate Confederation, and recover the original Party for serious stuff... or even start something sound from scratch with the intelligent people. You can't work with the kiddies and the few pragmatic fools (German unelected Internationales bastards, to name only some of yours) piggybacking their particular interests on everybodies efforts.<br><br>Surely, trying to solve the issues is much tougher still with a 40.000 kids strong Kindergarten, a whole bunch of pragmatists and a budget to fight for.<br><br>You might want all the expertise you can get...<br><br></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">> From: </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:thomas.blechschmidt@piratenpartei-bayern.de"><span lang="EN-US">thomas.blechschmidt@piratenpartei-bayern.de</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"><br>> To: </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:danielrr2@gmail.com"><span lang="EN-US">danielrr2@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">; </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net"><span lang="EN-US">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"><br>> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 14:32:27 +0200<br>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?<br></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">> <br>> Heiho sailors, salesmen(?), pirates<br>> <br>> I'm pretty new here and astonished, to find PPI in the same shape as our federal organization in Germany. So, I keep watching this in good hope to find people to communicate with in fact-based, reasonable ways. No personal harms, no fouls, no bahsing and no substanceless argumentations - if in any case argumentation without would be possible<br>> <br>> Furthermore I'm looking fpr pirates dedicated to the subject of energy policies.<br>> <br>> Hola pirats,<br>> <br>> Yo soy Nuevo en la lista de las PPI y bastante sorprendido de encontrar la PPI en condiciones bastante similares comparado con nuestro partido pirata aleman. Entonces, por el momento me quedo averiguando la lista en Buena esperanza de encontrar gente para comunicaion basada en hechos y en manera racional. Estoy harto de faltas personlaes, heridas verbales, y argumentacion sin cada substanica - sin mecionar que argumentacion sin substancia no es argumentacion.<br>> <br>> Ademas estoy buscando piratas en el sujeto de politicas de energia.<br>> <br>> Los agredeceria mucho de contactarme, o sea en castellano, aleman o ingles. Con un poco de esfuerzo frances, portuges o italiano.<br>> <br>> Cordiales saludos<br>> <br>> Thomas Blechschmidt<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>> >Von: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>> >[<a href="mailto:pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net">mailto:pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net</a>] Im Auftrag<br>> >von Daniel Riaño<br>> >Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Juni 2014 16:40<br>> >An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>> >Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in<br>> >organizing this movement?<br>> ><br>> >Short answer: no, Antonio AKA ningunotro doesn't want to work with<br>> >anybody in organizing anything. He wants to troll at large.<br>> >Longer answer: even if he wanted to, you wouldn't want him to do it.<br>> >Currently he is at the board of Spain's PP that not only has managed to<br>> >take down all the mail lists (except the raucous Tavern) and the web; to<br>> >postpone the general Assembly for 9 months, miss the EU elections,<br>> >completely fail to set up a census or to vote one single<br>> >proposition: he personally acts as if he was the speaker of the board<br>> >and defends their right *not* to give the affiliates one single piece of<br>> >information about what's going on. Just yesterday I asked what was<br>> >happening with the lists and he answered calling everybody an idiot and<br>> >arguing that he didn't "care to answer idiot questions" (sic) among<br>> >other . Would you like this person to help you organizing PPEU?<br>> >I don't think so.<br></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">> ><br>> >2014-06-05 13:52 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Łukasiak <</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:zzbbyy@gmail.com"><span lang="EN-US">zzbbyy@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">>:<br>> >> Or do you think that this is impossible, because we are too stupid, or<br>> >> because the organization is just doomed or for whatever other reason?<br></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">> >><br>> >> What does it mean for you to work together, to collaborate?<br>> >><br>> >> --<br>> >> Zbigniew Lukasiak<br>> >> <a href="http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/</a><br>> >> <a href="http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/</a><br>> >> ____________________________________________________<br>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> >> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>> >> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>> >____________________________________________________<br>> >Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> ><a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>> ><a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>> <br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a></span></p></div></div></div><br>____________________________________________________
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