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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Sadly, I can tell you EXACTLY which is the driving force behind that trend. And actually, it is not being considered at all.<BR> <BR>It is even destroying PP-DE at the moment ;(.<BR> <BR> <BR>Antonio.<br> <BR><div>From: jens.stomber@piratenpartei.de<br>To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 00:07:22 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Recent events involving PPI<br><br><pre>Hi Andrew,<br> <br>there are three things that you can do regarding PPI:<br>1. love it<br>2. change it<br>3. leave it<br> <br>Please make a decision and act accordingly. Do you represent any of PPI´s <br>members at the moment? Do you take any responsibilities in PPI? if not, please <br>stop arguing with Thomas and Gregory. Trolling is not a solution if you can´t <br>get enough support for your arguments.<br> <br>The pirate movement has unfortunately moved into a negative trend (Iceland <br>seems to be the only exception). Hitting the PPI board aside of the official <br>processes (GA, board meetings, motions, etc.) will even harm us more. Please <br>keep calm and constructive and stop this shitstorm!<br> <br> <br>-- <br>Jens Stomber - Pirate Party Germany<br><a href="http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Benutzer:ZombB" target="_blank">http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Benutzer:ZombB</a><br>mobile: +49-151-54828237 \o\ zrtp: zombb@ostel.co<br>e-mail: jens.stomber@piratenpartei.de /o/ key id: 0x6951B4FA<br>fingerprint: D331 9041 7DCB 4779 C0D1 FCA0 7EDE 42DB 6951 B4FA<br>jabber: zombb@jabber.ccc.de \o\ twitter: @ZombBi<br> <br>councillor of the European Pirate Party /o/ <a href="https://europeanpirates.eu/" target="_blank">https://europeanpirates.eu/</a><br>coordinator squad nsa-scandal \o\ <a href="http://is.gd/stopnsa" target="_blank">http://is.gd/stopnsa</a><br> <br>Am Freitag, 6. März 2015, 17:51:26 schrieb Andrew Norton:<br>> On 3/6/2015 5:04 PM, Thomas Gaul wrote:<br>> > Hi Andrew!<br>> > <br>> > Your are an artist. A great one! So YMMD!<br>> > <br>> > And sorry for laughing aloud about your derailing tonight.<br>> <br>> You call it derailing - many of us call it "rational debate on the facts<br>> concerning the activities a group that purports to speak for us all"<br>> <br>> If you don't like being called out on shit, then don't do shitty things.<br>> <br>> > Or using your wording from today on a different channel:<br>> > <br>> > " if SWeden and iceland leave, I think ppi will be finished<br>> > they're two 'big' parties (one the founder, the other the only one in a<br>> > national parliament on its own terms)"<br>> > <br>> > Your intention is obvious. Bye bye!<br>> <br>> Yes, my intention IS obvious, it's never been anything but. My intention<br>> is, and always has been to make PPI best achieve it's goals. At present,<br>> I think EVERYONE can see it's not.<br>> <br>> You seem to think that the Board = PPI, and therefore if you're against<br>> the Board, you're against PPI. I wouldn't have an issue if you went<br>> about things COMPETENTLY, but instead it's all selfishly. PURE<br>> Dunning-kruger.<br>> <br>> What other 'intent' do you ascribe? That I'm somehow using my wily<br>> influence to infiltrate and subvert the PPI? As the PPUK's international<br>> coordinator said when Gregory made those claims against me a short time<br>> ago, I'm not that persuasive., and I didn't need to be. Every member of<br>> the UK Board gets the leaders lists, and I think the party executive did<br>> too. I think it's ok to say now that there was only one dissenting voice<br>> out of all of them for leaving, and that includes many who have dealt<br>> personally with you. The lone dissenter voted no because they didn't<br>> think the specifics of the proposal matches the referenced data, but<br>> they did have significant questions over recent PPI Board activities.<br>> <br>> I didn't do anything except propose the vote, I didn't have to. You, as<br>> a board, did it far better than any outsider possibly could.<br>> <br>> And yes, I know you're on #ppi.<br>> <br>> > Thanks anyway for you help to PPI before it had been founded. My filter is<br>> > active again on this specific mailing list.<br>> > <br>> > (Get a life would be the appropriate saying - no I don't say it.)<br>> > <br>> > I wish you all the best in life! LLAP<br>> > <br>> > Thomas<br>> > (being here on my own - which is allowed for you as you stated but not for<br>> > others)<br>> <br>> Oh, you're more than welcome to say things 'on your own behalf'. You<br>> don't get the ability to pick and choose between being PPI 'chief admin<br>> officer', and PP-DE representative to PPI though, because the statutes<br>> specifically state you can't. The wording is about as clear as it's<br>> possible to be. So either you know that, and don't care, in which case<br>> you're not exactly a suitable person to hold such a role; or you have<br>> difficulty understanding such a concept in which case you're not<br>> competent to fulfil the role.<br>> <br>> I have to admit, I really did think it was the former, but as time goes<br>> on, evidence is mounting that it's the latter.<br>> <br>> As for me, I understood the intent behind the rule. You can't represent<br>> the international movement as a whole AND a national/regional movement<br>> to that international group.<br>> Even if there is no actual bias, it gives the impression of bias to the<br>> other members. Conversely, the state party will be less likely to get a<br>> report that may be critical, because it's unlikely they will criticize<br>> themself.<br>> It's a lose-lose all around, and it doesn't matter even if there is no<br>> bias, just the implication or appearance of bias can be as detrimental.<br>> Especially in an organisation whose founding principles is supposed to<br>> be against that.<br>> <br>> In fact I understood it so well, that when I did take over PPI, the<br>> first thing I did was resign my position with USPP, because I didn't<br>> want to give the impression that USPP activities would influence any<br>> actions.<br>> <br>> So the better question is this - why is it so important for both you,<br>> and Gregory, to retain your positions as PP-DE's international<br>> coordinators?<br>> <br>> Doubt we'll get any answer to that though.<br>> <br>> --<br>> Andrew Norton<br>> <a href="http://ktetch.co.uk" target="_blank">http://ktetch.co.uk</a><br>> Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]<br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br></pre><br>____________________________________________________
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