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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>This becomes really kafkaeske ;).<BR> <BR>Is this really Gregory Engels begging everybody to abide by the rules? After all he did to have them ignored since 2012 and the incident about the Catalan Pirate Party? Including all his stretching of logic and ethic to keep the issue completely off the agenda of the 2013 PPI GA... and pending since, the adoption of retroactive elimination of pending issues before the Court of Arbitration included?<BR> <BR>What would you think EVERYBODY IS THINKING "TODAY" about an organisation able to twist it's own statutes, internal logic and all ethics as spaghetti whenever Gregory Engels goals are at stake?<BR> <BR>SUICIDE.<BR> <BR>And that is what is happening... even if some are not smart enough to understand or even care.<BR> <BR>Nobody with a sound brain is willing to invest any resource in such a sink.<BR> <BR> <BR>Antonio Garcia<BR>Member of the Board<BR>Spanish Pirate Party<BR> <br> <BR><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: Gregory.Engels@piratenpartei-hessen.de<br>Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 13:16:50 +0100<br>To: thomas@pirateparty.be<br>CC: pp-leaders.discussion@lists.pp-international.net; pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] [pp-leaders.discussion] [pp-leaders] Call for Donations<br><br><div><br></div><div>Dear Thomas,</div><div><br></div><div>I would agree with you, that there is some sort of Catch-22 involved. </div><div><br></div><div>But consider this: </div><div>1) You are suggesting, that we should not follow out own laws. What do you think the conclusion would be about a political party that is announcing „we will not abide the laws, cause they are stupid“? </div><div>This is what distinct the activism from politics - activist may break occasionally some rules to drive attention to the flaws of those (like Greenpeace), political parties are actually in the position to inflict the change on the rules by following the democratic process.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not defending the stupidity of the statutes. I also think they are flawed at some aspects. But this are the rules we gave ourselves, and we should abide at least our own rules. How would we suppose to actually govern any matters, should we have success in any elections?</div><div><br></div><div>best regards, </div><div>
<span class="ecxApple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span class="ecxApple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><div style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><br>Gregory Engels</div><div>International Coordinator</div><div>Pirate Party of Germany</div><div><br></div><div>mobile: +49 172 853 44 91</div><div><a target="_blank">skype:gregory.engels</a></div><div><a target="_blank">jabber:dichter@jabber.piratenpartei.de</a></div><div>my free time: <a href="http://doodle.com/dichter" target="_blank">http://doodle.com/dichter</a></div><div><br></div><br></div><br></div><br></div></span><br class="ecxApple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="ecxApple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><blockquote><div>On 05.03.2015, at 22:21, Thomas Goorden - Piratenpartij <<a href="mailto:thomas@pirateparty.be">thomas@pirateparty.be</a>> wrote:</div><br class="ecxApple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr">By the way, you're also wrong. Let's have a look at those statutes.<div><br></div><div><font face="monospace, monospace">"(3) A Member’s affiliation ceases automatically upon dissolution, disqualification, liquidation or in cases of temporary administration, court-ordered settlement or insolvency. The Membership also ends automatically when this Member does no longer fulfill the criteria that were necessary for its preliminary recognition as a Member.<br>
</font><font face="monospace, monospace">(1) The Ordinary Members are the founding Members and those accepted by the General Assembly according to <span>section III</span>, paragraph (4). To Ordinary Membership are eligible Members that</font><BR><font face="monospace, monospace">a) adhere to these statutes and the goals of the association as laid down by these statutes,<br>b) use the inflection of the word Pirate in their name, and<br>c) have an inner order based on democratic principles.</font><BR><font face="monospace, monospace">(5) The Members are obliged to respect the Statutes, internal regulations and rules of procedure, in particular abide by the decisions of the Court of Arbitration."</font><br><br>So, by not adhering to the statutes by not sending a registered letter, the PPAU's membership <b>automatically</b> ends. Yes, the statutes are <i>that</i> bad.</div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Thomas Goorden - Piratenpartij <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thomas@pirateparty.be" target="_blank">thomas@pirateparty.be</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear PPI board,<br></div><div><br></div><div><div>This is truly getting ridiculous and unworthy of any organisation that seeks to aspire to global politics.</div></div><div><br></div><div>1. Trying to win a pissing match with someone who is leaving your organisation is like pissing in the wind: you'll only get yourself wet and smelly.</div><div>2. The provision in the statutes is obviously not appropriate as it lands you in the "twilight zone" when people have quit. There is no ambiguity about the decision here, which *might* be the reason the provision that is in there in the first place.</div><div>3. What are you going to do next GA? Declare that the PPAU is still a member, adjust your quorum towards that and then - possibly even more hilarious - try to force them to pay membership money? How do you see this end, seriously?<br>4. A normal, professional organisation would just provisionally accept the resignation and prepare a special vote the next GA to confirm it, as well as - recommend - a second vote to change this obviously stupidly written of the statutes.</div><div>5. What the hell is PPBE supposed to do? Send a registered letter to *our own* office? Surely you are not *that* eager to make fools of yourselves.</div><div>6. In normal organisations, if a board has an internal complaint running <i>between</i> board members, if the co-chair is ousted based on nothing but rumours, if members start quitting in series, in those circumstances most boards would dissolve themselves or even propose to dissolve the organisation.</div><div><br></div><div>So, with this I'm publicly saying it: the PPI cannot be saved from itself. The only logical, sensible solution is to scrap it and start over. You might not like it, I truly understand this, but anyone with a bit of organisational experience can see that this is true. And it's not even a personal matter as obviously there are plenty of people involved and the statutory setup is clearly broken beyond repair.</div><div><br></div><div>There will inevitably be an international pirate organisation and there will always be cooperation, but I cannot imagine that anyone truly wanted to build an organisation that acts like the PPI.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Thomas Goorden</div><div>(speaking for himself, not the PPBE)</div></div><div class="ecxHOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:51 PM, Thomas Gaul <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thomas.gaul@pp-international.net" target="_blank">thomas.gaul@pp-international.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">Hi,<br>
<br>
PPAU has accepted to statutes of PPI.<br>
<br>
The Statutes have been decided upon by the MEMBERS of PPI. The board has to follow these rules.<br>
<br>
Until now PPAU is not following the accepted rules. Blaming PPI and/or the board won't help. In fact PPAU is ignoring the will of more than 2/3 of the members of PPI.<br>
<br>
Thank you for listening.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Thomas<br>
CAO PPI<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Von: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general-bounces@lists.pirateweb.net</a>] Im Auftrag von Simon Frew<br>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. März 2015 21:15<br>
An: <a href="mailto:pp-leaders.discussion@lists.pp-international.net" target="_blank">pp-leaders.discussion@lists.pp-international.net</a><br>
Cc: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk; <a href="mailto:pp-leaders@lists.pp-international.net" target="_blank">pp-leaders@lists.pp-international.net</a><br>
Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] [pp-leaders] Call for Donations<br>
<div><div><br>
Dear Pirates<br>
PPAU has no intention of sending registered mail to PPI. It isn't the cost, we just won't jump through PPI bureaucratic hoops.<br>
Save your money for real issues like fighting the TPP and TTIP.<br>
Kind regards<br>
On 06/03/2015 4:00 AM, "Bastian" <<a href="mailto:bastian@piratde.de" target="_blank">bastian@piratde.de</a>> wrote:<br>
Dear pirates,<br>
<br>
the board has decided on the 21st of February to ask the members for a donation for the Pirate Party Australia, so that the costs are covered for an registered letter to the PPI headquarters in Brussels. We suppose that the total expenses amount to 42.75 AUD = 30.14 EUR.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://shop.auspost.com.au/pack-post/registered-post" target="_blank">http://shop.auspost.com.au/pack-post/registered-post</a><br>
<br>
I have the job. :-(<br>
<br>
Donations can be transferred to the following bank account:<br>
<br>
Pirate Parties International<br>
DEXIA BANQUE INTERNATIONAL A LUXEMBOURG<br>
IBAN: LU950026310080043500<br>
BIC: BILLLULL<br>
<br>
If the donations higher had to go than the costs, the exceeding amount will be transferred to the Pirate Party Australia.<br>
<br>
Thank you for cooperation.<br>
<br>
Kind regards<br>
<br>
Bastian, Treasurer<br>
<br>
<br>
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