[pp.int.general] Political Party X (was: Uppsala Declaration)
marten.fjallstrom at piratpartiet.se
Tue Jul 1 13:26:46 CEST 2008
> It was the opposite from a gentle, team-making movement, Marten. And I
> repeat, how many pirate parties have already signed this declaration?
It is a declaration of the conference, thus it needs no further signing.
It is a non-binding document to be used or not, by the national parties.
Before you drag up what I called it when I wrote my email here, please
note that that was a fancy title I used here, on this mailing list. As I
assume spanish media is no different from other media, the chance of them
reading and writing about this declaration without you doing something
(translation, titling, press releases, phone calls) is very close to zero.
As it is apparent that you abhor it, well then it will never reach spanish
media. Problem solved.
>> Regarding the parliamentary group
>> (wikipedia: "Groups get money and seats on Committees which Independent
>> members do not get")
> Oh, money... you should have started from there ...
I was actually refering to the seats on Committees.
>> unless we get enough seats we can not form a group of our own. The
>> conference concluded that the prospect of us
>> forming a group of our own after the election in 2009 is not very
> We knew that long time ago -19/5 or 20/6, it's anyway too hard
> nowadays-, cannot believe that you needed an international conference to
> find it out.
I did not say it took long to conclude this, did I?
> That's a lie:
"Lie" carry the notation that I know that I am wrong and still prefer to
present something false. If we disagree on something and you assume that I
lie, communication will in all probability soon be pointless.
> An example that shows why do you lie: Rosa Diez, only MP from Spanish
> UP&D in the Spanish Congress, belongs to the non-inscrits; however, and
> in spite of not being in many committees, she has the key in some
> votings, and she has tons of media focus each time she participates in
> parliamentary sessions. I'm not talking about if I do like her or not, I
> talk about how much advantage can be taken from being in the
Good example, pitty that no one knew about this example at the conference.
>> As to the objection that we are going to be sucked up into the group
>> and loose all identity, consider this: Are
>> Convergència i Unió and Partido Nacionalista Vasco considered the same
>> party in Spain? Is it even known that they are
>> in the same european parliament group (ALDE)? I would say that the EP
>> groups are barely known outside of the
>> parliament and therefore the risk of getting considered to be a bad
>> copy of a greater party or getting consumed by the
>> group is very slim
> Find another example, Marten, that's not a good one. PNV only concur to
> basque districts, and CiU only concur to catalan districts; different
> districts, so it's impossible for one of them to be sucked up into the
> other one. However, we concur in the same districts than nationalists,
> communists, greens, "liberals", conservatives, euroskepticals and
> socialists, so we actually would be sucked up -like United Left is being
> sucked up by PSOE here in Spain (from 22 MPs in 1996 to only 2 MPs in
> At least use an example from a country I don't know -e.g., Latvia,
> Lithuania, Romania, etc-; don't try to fool me with false examples from
> my own country, because it comes too easy to find that are not true.
PSOE and UL is in different EP parliament groups, though I guess that was
not your point. The point of me using two parties from Spain was that you
probably would know a lot about it, thus be able to confirm or deny wheter
this is a good example. We have good examples from Sweden with two parties
in EPP and three in ALDE, all running in all districts. Again, if you
assume that I am trying to fool you, whatever I write will be interpreted
in the worst possible way and thus possibilities of communication will go
down the drain.
>> and this played a not insignificant part in the planning of the
> Really? I cannot find it in the wiki of the conference; maybe the
> announce of Uppsale being used to develop in 1-2 days a PPI platform for
> 2009 European Election is in another different page?
As I did not get much input on the "work, work, work" parts, I suggested
to the conference that we should do a document for the EP election 2009,
and this was considered a good idea. I did want something to present on
sunday as I had told the media that I would. I told this to the
conference, but I think I was very clear that as long as we had something
that was a complete document that could be printed out and not a
wiki-page, it would work with the media. I had already planned a rally on
sunday together with the Ung Pirat (young pirates, our swedish youth
organisation) Convention and invited the press. The rally was mentioned on
the wiki, and getting media attention for our politics is always crucial.
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