[pp.int.general] Off topic )(*&%@_WQ()&*$!@ !!!
Core TX
coretx at gmail.com
Wed Nov 12 22:55:19 CET 2008
<<< OK ! >>>
I'm going to be asocial, and insulting right now. ( Since a civil aproach
does not seem to work )
- People are actually trying to achieve something while useing this list.
- Some people barely have the time to read all the important development.
Create subjects, keep it intrinsic PP related OR GTFO !!!!!
And open some "Non constructive General Talk" PP Mailinglist. Or even
better when ranting about national politics, start wineing in your national
mailinglist instead.
And towards the people who are "just" members, and not part of a workgroup
PLEASE ask yourself why you are polluting this INTERNATIONAL mailinglist
with off topic quotes of quotes of quotes, nested in a nested part of a
nested mail.
I'm REALLY getting sick of all the shit lately. My time is to valuable.
And even more important, the construction of the PP is more valuable than
YOUR ego ! ( And as mine as well )
I think i just wrote enough. Let this writeing ( style ) you just read be a
example. Now you know how NOT to communicate.
Arrr,
Core-TX
Pirate Party of the Netherlands.
008/11/12 <pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Idiots (Carlos Ayala)
> 2. Re: Why Members left (Max Moritz Sievers)
> 3. Re: WHOA now - everyone, stop for a minute (Max Moritz Sievers)
> 4. Re: WHOA now - everyone, stop for a minute (Alonso Pombo)
> 5. Re: Why Members left (Glenn Kerbein)
> 6. Re: Pirate Manifesto: Finally, amendments showdown (Natsu)
> 7. Re: OFF TOPIC (Max Moritz Sievers)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:09:28 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Carlos Ayala <aiarakoa at yahoo.es>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Idiots
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <656113.70121.qm at web28601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> De: Max Moritz Sievers <m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de>
> Enviado: mi?rcoles, 12 de noviembre, 2008 17:24:44
> David Arcos wrote:
> > > Can you PLEASE stop opening a new thread each time you respond? It's
> also very impolite to
> > > call "idiot" to the person with who you are discussing.
> > I didn't call a particitant of the discussion an idiot
>
> Are you sure? Remember Kaj's words about staying civil and not bickering.
> You said
>
> "The supporters of answer B (saying always yes to nuclear power) are not
> libertarians, theyare idiots."
>
> Syllogism: as you state that supporters of answer B are idiots, if there
> are supporters of answer B in this lists, then there are in this list people
> who are being called idiot by you.
>
> Again: are you sure that you're not calling any participant of this
> discussion an idiot? I think you better pay attention to Kaj's advices :)
> Regards,
>
>
> Carlos Ayala
> ( Aiarakoa )
>
> Partido Pirata National Board's
> Chairman
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:21:46 +0000
> From: Max Moritz Sievers <m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Why Members left
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <200811121721.46755.m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Andrew Norton wrote:
> > Max Moritz Sievers wrote:
> > > Take me as an example. I am totally against nuclear power and communism
> > > and totally for anarchy.
> >
> > Don't understand why.
>
> It is BAD practice to take a position on a topic without knowing all the
> facts
> about it.
>
> > Nothing wrong with nuclear power. It's as clean as we have, and as safe.
>
> It produces radioactive waste and also a lot of CO2 by the way. And like
> fossil fuels uranium resources aren't unlimited. We can continue with
> nuclear
> power maybe 100 or 200 years if we don't change the methods. In about 900
> million years no man can live on earth because the sun is getting hotter.
> If
> mankind wants to survive this, it has to move from earth. Every use of
> energy
> which could not last until then is not sustainable and we have to end it as
> quick as possible.
>
> But I highly query that mankind will survive 1,000 years.
>
> --
> regards
> Max Moritz Sievers
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:16:13 +0000
> From: Max Moritz Sievers <m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] WHOA now - everyone, stop for a minute
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <200811121916.13122.m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Andrew Norton wrote:
> > Please people, add your party name, and position at the end of your
> email,
> > and if you are NOT speaking on behalf of the party, make that clear there
> > also.
>
> We speak mostly for ourselves. In the rare cases someone has an official
> statement from his party /this/ should be made clear.
>
> | You bring into a union your whole power, your competence, and make
> yourself
> | count; in a society you are employed, with your working power; in the
> former
> | you live egoistically, in the latter humanly, that is, religiously, as
> | a "member in the body of this Lord"; to a society you owe what you have,
> and
> | are in duty bound to it, are -- possessed by "social duties"; a union you
> | utilize, and give it up undutifully and unfaithfully when you see no way
> to
> | use it further. If a society is more than you, then it is more to you
> than
> | yourself; a union is only your instrument, or the sword with which you
> | sharpen and increase your natural force; the union exists for you and
> | through you, the society conversely lays claim to you for itself and
> exists
> | even without you, in short, the society is sacred, the union your own;
> | consumes you, you consume the union.
> |
> | Nevertheless people will not be backward with the objection that the
> | agreement which has been concluded may again become burdensome to us and
> | limit our freedom; they will say, we too would at last come to this,
> | that "every one must sacrifice a part of his freedom for the sake of the
> | generality." But the sacrifice would not be made for the "generality's"
> sake
> | a bit, as little as I concluded the agreement for the "generality's" or
> even
> | for any other man's sake; rather I came into it only for the sake of my
> own
> | benefit, from selfishness. But, as regards the sacrificing, surely
> | I "sacrifice" only that which does not stand in my power, that is,
> | I "sacrifice" nothing at all.
>
> -- Max Stirner: The Ego and Its Own
> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Ego_and_Its_Own/My_Intercourse
>
> --
> regards
> Max Moritz Sievers
> Member of PPDE
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:10:09 -0600
> From: "Alonso Pombo" <pombiux at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] WHOA now - everyone, stop for a minute
> To: "Pirate Parties International -- General Talk"
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID:
> <ae3c78690811121210k249512bdo69c9854644c3acf2 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> IN FAVOR
>
> - ON MY BEHALF
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Max Moritz Sievers <
> m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de> wrote:
>
> > Andrew Norton wrote:
> > > Please people, add your party name, and position at the end of your
> > email,
> > > and if you are NOT speaking on behalf of the party, make that clear
> there
> > > also.
> >
> > We speak mostly for ourselves. In the rare cases someone has an official
> > statement from his party /this/ should be made clear.
> >
> > | You bring into a union your whole power, your competence, and make
> > yourself
> > | count; in a society you are employed, with your working power; in the
> > former
> > | you live egoistically, in the latter humanly, that is, religiously, as
> > | a "member in the body of this Lord"; to a society you owe what you
> have,
> > and
> > | are in duty bound to it, are -- possessed by "social duties"; a union
> you
> > | utilize, and give it up undutifully and unfaithfully when you see no
> way
> > to
> > | use it further. If a society is more than you, then it is more to you
> > than
> > | yourself; a union is only your instrument, or the sword with which you
> > | sharpen and increase your natural force; the union exists for you and
> > | through you, the society conversely lays claim to you for itself and
> > exists
> > | even without you, in short, the society is sacred, the union your own;
> > | consumes you, you consume the union.
> > |
> > | Nevertheless people will not be backward with the objection that the
> > | agreement which has been concluded may again become burdensome to us
> and
> > | limit our freedom; they will say, we too would at last come to this,
> > | that "every one must sacrifice a part of his freedom for the sake of
> the
> > | generality." But the sacrifice would not be made for the "generality's"
> > sake
> > | a bit, as little as I concluded the agreement for the "generality's" or
> > even
> > | for any other man's sake; rather I came into it only for the sake of my
> > own
> > | benefit, from selfishness. But, as regards the sacrificing, surely
> > | I "sacrifice" only that which does not stand in my power, that is,
> > | I "sacrifice" nothing at all.
> >
> > -- Max Stirner: The Ego and Its Own
> > http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Ego_and_Its_Own/My_Intercourse
> >
> > --
> > regards
> > Max Moritz Sievers
> > Member of PPDE
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alonso Pombo
> CASA PELLAS S.A.
> Innovacion
> (505) 484-9141
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:51 -0800
> From: Glenn Kerbein <glenn.kerbein at pirate-party.us>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Why Members left
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Message-ID: <20081112121551.02743f53 at The-Illusion.gateway.2wire.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have to be curt here...
> WHERE IN THE FUCK DID THIS CONVERSATION GO?
>
> --
> Glenn Kerbein
> Administrator
> Pirate Party of the United States
> glenn.kerbein at pirate-party.us
> "Burn, Hollywood, burn."
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:27:28 +0100
> From: Natsu <piratenatsu at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Manifesto: Finally, amendments
> showdown
> To: "Pirate Parties International -- General Talk"
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID:
> <a03155fb0811121227x30fc0b94j58639a3409cb696 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> >
> > Regimen doesn't work. Field tested all over the world for thousands of
> > years.
> >
> > --
> >
> * Regimen?* Are you putting *every *form of government in the same sack,
> and
> anarchy in the other hand? Do you put the Aztec Empire in the same package
> than the Swiss democracy? Talk about logic fallacies...
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:30:30 +0000
> From: Max Moritz Sievers <m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] OFF TOPIC
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <200811122030.30095.m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
>
> Gagis wrote:
> > I truly fail to see your point of view on just about any issue. I do not
> > know if it is because of the language barrier or what but all of this
> seems
> > extremely absurd to me.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Max Moritz Sievers wrote:
> > > Gagis wrote:
> > >> Also, campaigning based on conspiracy theories is a political suicide.
> > >
> > > Well, for president Bush it worked and for Obama it will work, too.
> >
> > I do think that if they went for a conspiracy theory, such as moon
> landings
> > never occurring, aliens spying on us or such, they would have been
> laughed
> > out of the game.
>
> The official story of 9/11 is a theory of a conspiracy -- so it is a
> conspiracy theory. Maybe this helps.
>
> And remember *we* are spying on aliens. If there are aliens, they could be
> spying on us, too. Is this so implausible?
>
> > Gagis wrote:
> > > > Finnish Party will almost certainly not include either in uniform
> Party
> > > > Program.
> > > >
> > > > Those two are also up to individual members. Also, there is no issue
> > > > about sexuality of babies.
> > >
> > > Why?
> >
> > Most of all: Because there isn't. Look at any major media reports and you
> > won't see any debates about the sexuality of babies.
>
> Then we should start a debate.
>
> > It's not an issue. Infant means baby.
>
> No and no.
>
> > Humans develop physical sexual ability at the age range of 11-18 years of
> > age. Babies are around 1 years old. I see no issue there.
>
> It is BAD practice to take a position on a topic without knowing all the
> facts
> about it.
>
> | All human beings, from birth until death are sexual beings.
> | [...]
> | Your child is a sexual being. And as futile as trying to prevent breast
> | development and menstruation in females, broadening shoulders and
> deepening
> | voices in males, it is best to help your young person manage new and
> | powerful emotions and desires, rather than ignore, manipulate or deny
> what a
> | young person feels.
> http://www.youthembassy.com/parents_sexuality.asp
>
> I recommend to study the work of Wilhelm Reich. Maybe a good starting point
> would be "Children of the Future: On the Prevention of Sexual Pathology".
> But
> I haven't read this book yet. One book I have read an know that it contains
> what is need here is "The Mass Psychology of Fascism".
>
> As Reich put it:
>
> | Suppression of the natural sexuality in the child, particularly of its
> | genital sexuality, makes the child apprehensive, shy, obedient, afraid of
> | authority, good and adjusted in the authoritarian sense; it paralyzes the
> | rebellious forces because any rebellion is laden with anxiety; it
> produces,
> | by inhibiting sexual curiosity and sexual thinking in the child, a
> general
> | inhibition of thinking and of critical faculties. In brief, the goal of
> | sexual suppression is that of producing an individual who is adjusted to
> the
> | authoritarian order and who will submit to it in spite of all misery and
> | degradation. At first the child has to submit to the structure of the
> | authoritarian miniature state, the family; this makes it capable of later
> | subordination to the general authoritarian system. The formation of the
> | authoritarian structure takes place through the anchoring of sexual
> | inhibition and anxiety.
>
> > Sexuality trough genes and psychology of course exists since we are born
> as
> > males and females... but what is the issue and where? Children are not
> > forced to hide their gender.
>
> They are forced in several ways. And I'm certain this holds true till today
> and in the future if we don't change it. I don't have to spy in the private
> rooms to know what's going on. If there was no suppression of the sexuality
> (especially of children) the world would look dramatically different. There
> would be no police brutality -- to name just one thing.
>
> > There is nothing preventing children/the young from having sex with each
> > other in Finland. Legal age of consent on the other hand, meaning age
> when
> > adults can have sex with the minor, is debatable in the 12-20 range, but
> I
> > am quite happy with it being at 16, since it works well.
>
> If I would ask you, if a 17 year old should be punished, you would
> presumably
> answer no. Than this law is junk! Laws should be enforced regardlessly.
> Enact
> the laws accordingly! I am the founder of the law and order wing of the
> PPDE.
> I solicit for outing yourselves as proponents of law and order, too. Why
> should we accept that the idiots lay claim to this idea?
>
> > If you want to legalize pedophilia, this is not the right political
> movement
> > for you.
>
> Right, because pedophilia *is* legal and never was illegal.
>
> > > > Drugs divide the party when it comes to opinion but it will never
> > > > divide the party when it comes to co-operation.
> > >
> > > You should know that intelligence services profit from the illegal
> trade.
> > > Our
> > > demand for privacy will only then fulfilled if all intelligence
> services
> > > are
> > > destroyed. Just with this reasoning we have to stop prohibition.
> >
> > Umm what... 0_o
> >
> > I do like how our army, which I and most of the adult members of PPFI
> serve
> > in as reserves, is able to monitor invaders in war.
>
> Who should invade? The people? Who do you think is your enemy?
>
> > Destroying intelligence services destroys the military, the police and so
> > on.
>
> No, not necessarily. But I want to destroy them, too. As long as there is a
> law, a police is required. But this should be a different police.
>
> > Goverment and military agencies are not private businesses who market
> their
> > services to you and rely on there being something to work against.
>
> Where is your argument here?
>
> > > If you want to dictate which drugs other people are allowed to use, you
> > > don't value freedom. If you oppress the sexuality of your childs, you
> > > don't value freedom. Why do you think the people allow oppression
> through
> > > copyright and constraints of civil liberties?
> >
> > I like to restrict people's ability to consume various poisons.
>
> Why should they obey to you? You have to force them.
>
> > It is a non-core issue and should not be taken a common
> > stance on and it is a dangerous issue that will certainly shift us from
> the
> > party that brings the new idea to everyone to a party than brings the new
> > issue to half of the interested people.
>
> Because intelligence services get their power from the black market and our
> goal of privacy and peace can only be attained when there is no
> intelligence
> service, we should take action against the back market. This is a core
> issue.
>
> > > | We're playing with half a deck as long as we tolerate that the
> > > | cardinals of government and science should dictate where human
> > > | curiousity can legitimately send its attention and where it can not.
> > > | It's an essentially preposterous situation. It is essentially a civil
> > > | rights issue, because what we're talking about here is the repression
> of
> > > | a religious sensibility. In fact, not /a/ religious sensibility,
> /the/
> > > | religious sensibility.
> > >
> > > -- Terence McKenna: Non-Ordinary States Through Vision Plants
> >
> > ...
>
> You should contemplate about these wise words.
>
> > > > What you suggest will kill any such initiative immediately. It is not
> a
> > > > coincidence that the Lobby constantly and vigorously tries to
> associate
> > > > file sharing with child porn.
> > >
> > > Child porn is a side issue. When I call for to stop oppressing the
> > > sexuality infants, I don't encourage child porn. There is a relation
> > > between child porn and the oppression of the sexuality of infants: it's
> a
> > > vicious circle. This is true for every kind of child abuse. I want to
> > > break the cycle. Why shouln't this be a goal of our movement?
> >
> > What do your really mean with all this? Legalizing pedophilia? Hell no.
>
> You little pervert! It happens all in *your* phantasy.
>
> > Changing attitude of parents who spank their children for being
> interested
> > in the opposite sex? Not the work of a politician.
>
> Sure it is.
>
> > > It's a hot subject and that is why it could profitable for us. It is
> not
> > > reasonable for me to be member of a party which will never be in a
> > > parliament. I reckon this will be the case with those core-topic
> focused
> > > Pirate Parties. If they would even so suceed, life would hbe a bit
> easier
> > > or at least we would have a bit more freedom. But then the real
> problems
> > > wouldn't be touched -- and not solved.
> >
> > Pirate movement is strong BECAUSE people come to our conclusions from all
> > sides of political ideologies. Becoming the next haven for fringe
> movements
> > is what would end us.
>
> So you want superficial politics. I don't.
>
> > We work for freedom, not your personal angendas or ideas of it. There is
> a
> > difference beetween a shared goal and someone's private goals, and that
> is
> > why we should not let anyone include theirs in our program. Not me, nor
> > you.
>
> A shared goal is the privat goal of more than one individual.
>
> --
> regards
> Max Moritz Sievers
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> pp.international.general mailing list
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> End of pp.international.general Digest, Vol 21, Issue 33
> ********************************************************
>
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