[pp.int.general] 9/11 is a lie

[Max Moritz Sievers]

Ray Jenson wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Gagis wrote:
> > If we start taking official stances on every issue from knitting
> > patterns to nuclear warfare we will never succeed.
> >
> > Keep it simple.
>
> Keep a complex issue simple... got it.
>
> No, I refuse to keep such a complex issue simple (since the reason
> it's so complex to begin with is people not wanting to take the entire
> picture into account). I understand the need, but if you simplify too
> much, you end up overcomplicating the situation.

Complex things happend, right. But if the U.S. government commited a treason 
to its people and a fraud to everybody, this is a simple conclusion and a 
truth to be told.

> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Max Moritz Sievers wrote:
> >> My demands to a MP are firstly that they don't commit treason on the
> >> people. Some incompetency is less harmfull than having the enemy ruling
> >> the country. I'm not thinking of Valentin here but of 9/11. See
> >> http://911research.wtc7.net/ and
> >> http://www.journalof911studies.com/ for more information. I want you to
> >> draw your attention especially to
> >>
> >> Werther: A Half-Dozen Questions About 9/11 They Don't Want You to Ask
> >> http://www.counterpunch.org/werther02182006.html
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >> John Doraemi: My Letter to Obama
> >> http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2008/10/my-letter-to-obama.html
>
> These are all written by what we call here in the USA "conspiracy
> nuts".

These are carefully selected websites not written by nuts. You wrote:

| Our chief adversaries use fear and guilt on a regular basis to drive their
| campaigns.

Why do you preclude your government produced 9/11?

Twentieth Century Precedents for 9/11/01
http://www.911review.com/precedent/century/

1990s Precedents for 9/11/01
http://www.911review.com/precedent/decade/

> You can spot a cover-up (which there most certainly was surrounding 9/11),
> but you also must understand the nature of what is being covered up.

*I* do understand the nature of what is being covered up.

> If we spend all of our time looking at what someone else is doing, we miss
> the entire point of what our conspiracy is about.

No, why should we? We state that the official story of 9/11 is a lie and we 
demand that the erroneous decisions based on the lie will be corrected.

| And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't
| there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you
| had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have
| censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting
| your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there
| are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable,
| but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only
| look into a mirror.
-- V in V for Vendetta, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/quotes

> In the case of 9/11, the real conspiracy is what the government did
> during the attacks--not before, and (for the most part) not after,
> either. Most of what the government was doing before and after is
> public knowledge or unrelated. The real questions were successfully
> covered by Michael Moore, rather than uncovered.

Michael Moore works for THEM.

> But even today, there are conspiracy theorists who claim it was a missile
> that exceeded the speed of sound and exploded and that there was no
> evidence of a plane there (in spite of the Time Magazine and CNN
> photos to the contrary, both of which were shot by photographers who
> witnessed the plane).

These conspiracy theorist are agents from the other side. It doesn't matter 
what hit the Pentagon. These are details which should delude you to get the 
big picture. We have to understand the nature of what is being covered up.

But if you still want to know about this detail, read:
http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/

> Funny how nobody talks about the assassination attempt against Bush on
> 9/11... yet it was reported. Even back then, I guess nobody really
> cared.

Again: We have to understand the nature of what is being covered up.

Cover Stories of the People in Charge:
http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/bush.html

> >> PPUS recommended Obama for president. But 9/11 is an important topic for
> >> every nation and every Pirate Party. As we discuss how to save oil there
> >> is done exercise of power in a whole other level. If we accept the
> >> official conspiracy theory, we can't achieve the change we want.
>
> The topic of 9/11 should be laid to rest. It was a long time ago, and
> while important, it should be history, and not present. We shouldn't
> live there.

To understand where we are now, we need to know what has gone before. This in 
turn will help us to understand what's coming next. In my opinion, 
clarification of 9/11 is very important in this regard.

> Advocating privacy is a worthwhile goal. It is not, however, the only
> goal we have as a party. It is merely one of the goals that we all
> have. The flip side of this is the idea that surveillance decreases
> crime by increasing the chances that someone gets caught.

The goal of politics should be that criminals get caught but that there are 
minimal law violators.

| It spells poverty and crime. To alleviate that poverty we build homes of
| charity, poorhouses, free hospitals, all of which you support with your
| taxes. To prevent crime and to punish the criminals it is again you who have
| to support police, detectives, State forces, judges, lawyers, prisons,
| keepers. Can you imagine anything more senseless and impractical? The
| legislatures pass laws, the judges interpret them, the various officials
| execute them, the police track and arrest the criminal, and finally the
| prison warden gets him into custody. Numerous persons and institutions are
| busy keeping the jobless man from stealing and punish him if he tries to.
| Then he is provided with the means of existence, the lack of which had made
| him break the law in the first place. After a shorter or longer term he is
| turned loose. If he fails to get work he begins the same round of theft,
| arrest, trial, and imprisonment all over again.
|
| This is a rough but typical illustration of the stupid character of our
| system; stupid and inefficient. Law and government support that system.
-- Alexander Berkman: Now and After: The ABC of Communist Anarchism
<http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Now_and_After:_The_ABC_of_Communist_Anarchism/Chapter_21>

> Criminal statistics should bear this out, if true, though it will take
> statistics for a minimum of 10 years from the instigation of
> surveillance in order to warrant the result. There is likely a brief
> lull in criminal activity that picked up again 5-7 years later (the
> length of the human psyche's cycles, which are dependent upon the
> person and so this number is a generalization).

You mean in the monitored places.

> Until we actually have such statistics, surveillance will be a
> difficult battle to win. However, we can force concessions by making
> stronger laws to protect the privacy of individuals, especially those
> who are found to be targets of hatred within society.

No, we need to abolish laws.

-- 
regards
Max Moritz Sievers

| It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits:
| freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either.
-- Mark Twain