[pp.int.general] 9/11 is a lie

[David Arcos]

A warning has been given and Max keeps on beating the dead horse.

I suggest a temporary ban/mute.



On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:57 PM, Max Moritz Sievers <
m.sievers at piratenpartei-hessen.de> wrote:

> Ray Jenson wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Gagis wrote:
> > > If we start taking official stances on every issue from knitting
> > > patterns to nuclear warfare we will never succeed.
> > >
> > > Keep it simple.
> >
> > Keep a complex issue simple... got it.
> >
> > No, I refuse to keep such a complex issue simple (since the reason
> > it's so complex to begin with is people not wanting to take the entire
> > picture into account). I understand the need, but if you simplify too
> > much, you end up overcomplicating the situation.
>
> Complex things happend, right. But if the U.S. government commited a
> treason
> to its people and a fraud to everybody, this is a simple conclusion and a
> truth to be told.
>
> > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Max Moritz Sievers wrote:
> > >> My demands to a MP are firstly that they don't commit treason on the
> > >> people. Some incompetency is less harmfull than having the enemy
> ruling
> > >> the country. I'm not thinking of Valentin here but of 9/11. See
> > >> http://911research.wtc7.net/ and
> > >> http://www.journalof911studies.com/ for more information. I want you
> to
> > >> draw your attention especially to
> > >>
> > >> Werther: A Half-Dozen Questions About 9/11 They Don't Want You to Ask
> > >> http://www.counterpunch.org/werther02182006.html
> > >>
> > >> and
> > >>
> > >> John Doraemi: My Letter to Obama
> > >> http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2008/10/my-letter-to-obama.html
> >
> > These are all written by what we call here in the USA "conspiracy
> > nuts".
>
> These are carefully selected websites not written by nuts. You wrote:
>
> | Our chief adversaries use fear and guilt on a regular basis to drive
> their
> | campaigns.
>
> Why do you preclude your government produced 9/11?
>
> Twentieth Century Precedents for 9/11/01
> http://www.911review.com/precedent/century/
>
> 1990s Precedents for 9/11/01
> http://www.911review.com/precedent/decade/
>
> > You can spot a cover-up (which there most certainly was surrounding
> 9/11),
> > but you also must understand the nature of what is being covered up.
>
> *I* do understand the nature of what is being covered up.
>
> > If we spend all of our time looking at what someone else is doing, we
> miss
> > the entire point of what our conspiracy is about.
>
> No, why should we? We state that the official story of 9/11 is a lie and we
> demand that the erroneous decisions based on the lie will be corrected.
>
> | And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country,
> isn't
> | there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once
> you
> | had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now
> have
> | censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and
> soliciting
> | your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly
> there
> | are those more responsible than others, and they will be held
> accountable,
> | but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only
> | look into a mirror.
> -- V in V for Vendetta, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/quotes
>
> > In the case of 9/11, the real conspiracy is what the government did
> > during the attacks--not before, and (for the most part) not after,
> > either. Most of what the government was doing before and after is
> > public knowledge or unrelated. The real questions were successfully
> > covered by Michael Moore, rather than uncovered.
>
> Michael Moore works for THEM.
>
> > But even today, there are conspiracy theorists who claim it was a missile
> > that exceeded the speed of sound and exploded and that there was no
> > evidence of a plane there (in spite of the Time Magazine and CNN
> > photos to the contrary, both of which were shot by photographers who
> > witnessed the plane).
>
> These conspiracy theorist are agents from the other side. It doesn't matter
> what hit the Pentagon. These are details which should delude you to get the
> big picture. We have to understand the nature of what is being covered up.
>
> But if you still want to know about this detail, read:
> http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/
>
> > Funny how nobody talks about the assassination attempt against Bush on
> > 9/11... yet it was reported. Even back then, I guess nobody really
> > cared.
>
> Again: We have to understand the nature of what is being covered up.
>
> Cover Stories of the People in Charge:
> http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/bush.html
>
> > >> PPUS recommended Obama for president. But 9/11 is an important topic
> for
> > >> every nation and every Pirate Party. As we discuss how to save oil
> there
> > >> is done exercise of power in a whole other level. If we accept the
> > >> official conspiracy theory, we can't achieve the change we want.
> >
> > The topic of 9/11 should be laid to rest. It was a long time ago, and
> > while important, it should be history, and not present. We shouldn't
> > live there.
>
> To understand where we are now, we need to know what has gone before. This
> in
> turn will help us to understand what's coming next. In my opinion,
> clarification of 9/11 is very important in this regard.
>
> > Advocating privacy is a worthwhile goal. It is not, however, the only
> > goal we have as a party. It is merely one of the goals that we all
> > have. The flip side of this is the idea that surveillance decreases
> > crime by increasing the chances that someone gets caught.
>
> The goal of politics should be that criminals get caught but that there are
> minimal law violators.
>
> | It spells poverty and crime. To alleviate that poverty we build homes of
> | charity, poorhouses, free hospitals, all of which you support with your
> | taxes. To prevent crime and to punish the criminals it is again you who
> have
> | to support police, detectives, State forces, judges, lawyers, prisons,
> | keepers. Can you imagine anything more senseless and impractical? The
> | legislatures pass laws, the judges interpret them, the various officials
> | execute them, the police track and arrest the criminal, and finally the
> | prison warden gets him into custody. Numerous persons and institutions
> are
> | busy keeping the jobless man from stealing and punish him if he tries to.
> | Then he is provided with the means of existence, the lack of which had
> made
> | him break the law in the first place. After a shorter or longer term he
> is
> | turned loose. If he fails to get work he begins the same round of theft,
> | arrest, trial, and imprisonment all over again.
> |
> | This is a rough but typical illustration of the stupid character of our
> | system; stupid and inefficient. Law and government support that system.
> -- Alexander Berkman: Now and After: The ABC of Communist Anarchism
> <
> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Now_and_After:_The_ABC_of_Communist_Anarchism/Chapter_21
> >
>
> > Criminal statistics should bear this out, if true, though it will take
> > statistics for a minimum of 10 years from the instigation of
> > surveillance in order to warrant the result. There is likely a brief
> > lull in criminal activity that picked up again 5-7 years later (the
> > length of the human psyche's cycles, which are dependent upon the
> > person and so this number is a generalization).
>
> You mean in the monitored places.
>
> > Until we actually have such statistics, surveillance will be a
> > difficult battle to win. However, we can force concessions by making
> > stronger laws to protect the privacy of individuals, especially those
> > who are found to be targets of hatred within society.
>
> No, we need to abolish laws.
>
> --
> regards
> Max Moritz Sievers
>
> | It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three
> benefits:
> | freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use
> either.
> -- Mark Twain
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
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>



-- 
David Arcos Sebastián
http://davidarcos.net
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