[pp.int.general] Pirate Manifesto: Finally, amendments showdown

[Carlos Ayala]

De: Jens Seipenbusch <seipenbusch at web.de>
Enviado: viernes, 14 de noviembre, 2008 12:31:21
Carlos Ayala schrieb:
> > Maybe the 11 eligible voters should be named here and should be asked how they want to vote
> > this 
> is there a WIKI-page or anything where those 11 persons are named ?

Yes, this is the wiki page. After you stated that Helmut wasn't the representative anymore, nobody appears as PPDE representative -must I suppose that you are now the PPDE representative? if you are, you should put your name there, within the PPDE section-.

Also, in the Amendments Showdown page, there is a link for each of the seven ballots; you should indicate there who is the authorised PPDE representative to cast PPDE's votes, if the one who appears is not the right one.

> > - voting rules were not approved by me, but by eligible voters' representatives -Andrew, Anton,
> > Artemiusz, Roderick, Helmut, Ole, etc-
> as i pointed out, Helmut was not eligible on behalf of the german party to decide on the voting
> mode for us.
> I surely dont want to change voting rules during the ballot, but up to now in fact i did not agree to
> any voting rules.
> Again i cant accept any deadline until this is sorted out.

These voting rules are public since july, and were reminded in september -when the amending period started-; both times not only were made public in the wiki list but also in this mailing list. There is no way in which you may state you weren't unaware.

> I would like to hear the votes of the other 10 eliglible voters on the voting mode and if they think
> they already agreed on it - as simple as that. Therefore i'd like to see the names (see above).
> The page where i expect the names to be listed
> (http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_Amendments_Eligible_Voters)
> seems still mostly empty.

That's not the page to enlist the representatives; if you read the text, it's only the list of pirate parties eligible to vote amendments in Stage Two, and it was expected to indicate whether they were going to propose amendments as a party or individually.

Representatives are enlisted in this page.

> I dont think it will bring us any consent, if we just run through some deadlines regardless of the
> mentioned problem.

There is no problem. You have been aware of Pirate Manifesto process during all months and you have remained silent.

You waited after the amending process' deadline to state "Helmut is not PPDE representative" -it's OK for you in PPDE to choose any representative of your will, however ... knowing it earlier would have helped-, and you have waited 2 1/2 months since Stage Two was announced, and 4 months since the voting system was announced, to state "I don't like voting system". So I must ask:

- do you find normal to sack your representative after the amending process and during the voting window?
- do you find normal to complain about the voting system, 4 months after its approval, 2 1/2 months after the start of Stage Two -in both events it was properly announced here in the mailing list- and after the voting window has been opened?

Things regarding Pirate Manifesto haven't been decided by me, but by a group of representatives -you have remained silent during four months, not warning that Helmut wasn't actually a representative-; and haven't been the product of a single day, a single weekend or a single week, but a open, transparent, public, several-months-lasting process. It is not believable by no one if you now state, "I wasn't unaware of Helmut being representative", "I wasn't unaware of voting system", etc.

> Additionally there is some really weird point in the voting rules:
> > quorum: for each amendment to become approved, at least 80 % of eligible voters must cast
> > their votes; being 11 eligible voters, at least 9 should cast their votes
> I assume that the same rule applied when this rule was decided on ? Otherwise that would mean,
> that you just setup this rule with only low participation, but demand a rather high participation to
> accept an amendment for the draft - which for my understanding is debatable

False dichotomy. Have you ever heard about constituent assemblies? Guess you did, probably you had one in PPDE to create your party; I even bet that your constituent assembly's rules were not the same as the rules that assembly agreed for PPDE.

And of course the july's decision is debatable, everything or almost everything is debatable; what I find pretty amazing is that you wait until now to do it. Regards,


                                                           Carlos Ayala
                                                           ( Aiarakoa )

                                      Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman



      
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