[pp.int.general] Our votes, and our problem with amendment 3 ha

[Gagis]

Carlos and Jens, will you quit the absolutely useless bickering already and
start thinking about what helps us make the manifest better instead of whose
pride is hurt and where. The rest of us simply do not care and are rather
unimpressed with the behiaviour of *both* of you.

Think: "Does this improve the document?", instead of: "Is this formally
correct and does it support my authority?"

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Carlos Ayala <aiarakoa at yahoo.es> wrote:

> *De:* Jens Seipenbusch <seipenbusch at web.de>***
> Enviado:* viernes, 28 de noviembre, 2008 11:10:12
> > Ole, you are completely right here, thats exactly what and how it
> happened.
>
> False, your own mail proves you're not telling us the truth
>
> > I might add, that at the time you worked out the whole amendment planning
> in the past summer, i
> > wasnt aware of the fact that you already _decide_ on formalities of the
> process at all.
>
> You always state being unaware of many things in spite of their publicity.
> ¿Were you unaware, e.g., from 18th of October -date of Helmut's amendments-
> until 3rd of November -then you changed PPDE amending mode<http://int.piratenpartei.de/index.php?title=Pirate_Manifesto_Amendments_Eligible_Voters&action=history>-,
> of PPDE's mode being individual mode? No one can believe it, as the only
> possible reason would be you abandoning this process -e.g., in September you
> disliked most of First Draft; however, you remained silent for two months, how
> can anyone disliking something remaining silent? did your party has no
> amendments for a Draft supposedly disliked? not believable at all-.
>
> > Thats mainly the fault of the german pirates, me and Helmut, since i
> would have expected that
> > Helmut wouldnt just decide on behalf of PP-DE silently without notifying
> me - but thats what he
> > did.
>
> False again. What do you mean with ->silent<-? Secret? Is this page<http://int.piratenpartei.de/index.php?title=Pirate_Manifesto&oldid=2042>secret -by the way, belonging to a category linked at the very Main
> Page of International Wiki <http://int.piratenpartei.de/Main_Page>-, or
> you simply ignored the entire process?
>
> > so you can believe that i am interested in a good final manifest, that we
> can present our members
> > and expect their accordance.
>
> And we have to believe you because of how much you've been involved in the
> whole process ...
>
> > I now see no other solution as to do a second amendment round.
>
> The solution is you sticking to the truth.
>
> > I really see no use of now rushing through only some problems we had only
> to finish the manifesto
> > asap, it is more important to have broad acceptance than to meet any
> close deadline!
>
> Controversial issues are going to be debated; thus, this is simply a
> question of one person, namely Jens, who didn't get involved into a public
> process for months and, after deadline passed, he throw some work from other
> away and tried to get everything stopped. What you call rushing is just
> fulfilling what we agreed -and even we've been slightly flexible with
> deadlines (though as Anton said, one thing is being flexible, and a very
> different thing to be overly flexible)-.
>
> > And imho it is still more important what is written inside the manifesto
>
> Not for you, who in spite of disliking First Draft so much and in spite of
> being PPDE representative, paid no attention to the whole process and
> proposed no amendments -in time-, even dropping other PPDE members'
> amendments -i.e., you didn't work and spoiled others' work-.
>
> > Please dont let the spirit of the meeting in Uppsala be ruined by this
> dispute.
>
> Here there is no other problem that you lying to try to put the blame on me
> for things you did. Regards,
>
>
>                                                                Carlos Ayala
>                                                                ( Aiarakoa )
>
>                                          Partido Pirata National Board's
> Chairman
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
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