[pp.int.general] Our ideology

Eric Priezkalns eric.priezkalns at pirateparty.org.uk
Mon Aug 3 15:08:43 CEST 2009


I'm not sure I agree that all the discussions imply a centralized  
state (depending on what you mean by that...) but I do think you make  
a very valuable point.  Technology changes possibilities and sometimes  
people's imagination does not keep pace with the changes in  
possibilities.  I don't think we will get rid of nation-states anytime  
soon, but it is worth having an open mind about whether human needs  
are best satisfied by nation-states or whether they can be better  
satisfied within other frameworks, and this will guide us as to our  
views on the current nation-states, how they interact, and how people  
interact across borders.  Relying upon traditional political concepts  
may fail to see the potential for radically new ways of managing our  

As an example of how technology can prompt radical new political  
thought, Marx's thinking was heavily driven by the rise of  
industrialization and mass manufacture, which in turn was driven by  
the use of steam power.  We are seeing how a global electronic  
communications infrastructure is changing the potential for human  
interaction and organization, but we have no identified how this could  
lead to better ways of organizing society.



On 3 Aug 2009, at 13:52, Mats Eriksson wrote:

> I get the feeling that the ideology discussions here during the  
> latest weeks or so are implying that a centralized state should  
> axiomatically exist, and the issue is how this state should be  
> steered - hence all discussions about left and right, socialism vs  
> liberalism (that also takes the centralized state for granted) etc.
> As a pirate, I am not sure if I want a state at all. But if I want a  
> state, can this state be operating in a completely different  
> fashion? For example, if the today's centralized state is operating  
> like an engine, can a future state work like a (TCP/IP) network? A  
> state type that cannot be central controlled, and does not stop to  
> work just because a part of it does not work? (compare with today's  
> "engine" type of state where all components needs to work in  
> harmony). Also, a network of states that also tolerates the "ad hoc"  
> creation of new states.
> In short: I would like the discussions to be about how a distributed  
> networking state can be designed, rather than how the existing  
> centralized state(s) should be steered.
> Thanks for your time
> Mats
> PP Member in rural Sweden
> pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:21:47 +0200
>> From: "Reinier Bakels" <r.bakels at planet.nl>
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Our ideology
>> To: "Pirate Parties International -- General Talk"
>> 	<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>> Message-ID: <44FA3C7224EB4D79A00BC00B9E8C8B8F at RBB2009>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> 	reply-type=response
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart
>> The chart is a nice try, but - as the WikiPedia editors already  
>> decided -
>> may not stand criticism.
>> Is "left wing" synonymous with strong personal freedom? In my  
>> perception,
>> old-fashioned socialism requires strong state intervention in order  
>> to
>> reduce income differences.
>> Populism imho does not belong in this scale at all: populism is  
>> dishonest
>> politics based on (perhaps) popular but infeasible promises, and/or
>> addressing artificial problems ("islamisation").
>> In my observation another important axis is conservatism versus  
>> progressive
>> politics. Dutch politics has  the advantage of many political  
>> parties, so al
>> examples can be found here:
>> socialist, conservative: SP
>> socialist, progressive: left greens ("groenlinks")
>> liberal, conservative: VVD
>> liberal, progressive: D66
>> And then there are the Christian Democrats who don't fit in any  
>> scheme
>> except POWER.
>> reinier
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

More information about the pp.international.general mailing list