[pp.int.general] Reinier & Carlos

[Core TX]

  <aiarakoa at yahoo.es>*** <-- Written by mail sender. Core-TX / Samir Allioui

Reinier:     1. I don't think a private conversation was appropriate. I
always talked about the substance - even if you sometimes thought I did not.
If I say "you are wrong", than I don't mean that I blame you for making a
mistake, but that I have a different view (wich could be a fact or an
opinion).

  Carlos :  And, /of course/, if you make contradictions -like calling me
/fifthcolumnist/ and PPI /fundamentalist/ at the same time-, or plain
insults -like /stupid/-, or other defamations -like /radical/-, you would
just have been /creative/ in your descriptions. Haven't you been? Come on.


*** Don't confuse opinions with insults. -- Please READ, and conclude that
there is such a thing as "intention" Even if you two hate each other, you
still can work together if you are both mature enough. Something i'm
starting to doubt.


Reinier:     2. My "denial" is essential. Being insulting or scornful
requires the *intent* to do so (or at least "dolus eventualis" - I don't
know the term in English), and if I say that it is NOT my intent, *you have
to accept that as a fact*.

   Carlos : That would require me trusting your statement. If you
/apologize/ in one mail while, in the same mail, continue calling /radicals/
all those who doesn't give up in demanding our goals -by the way, you
considered our goals as /esoteric/! (your mail: 4-XII-09, 10:14)-, believe
me: I don't trust your excuses.

***  The apology was made because of a interpretation error. Please be
rational and see  things in context. Questioning the motive or intentions of
PPI members is corrosive to our efforts. I cant believe you are not aware of
this. So please act upon your knowledge.

Reinier:     Even when I called you a "fifth column" at some time, that was
about your opinions.
               A "fifth column" - as you know - is some who works for the
"ennemy". Which was perfectly appropriate

  Carlos :  Me, working for the pro-copyright lobby? Your excuses cannot be
trustable when you continue defamating me again, and again. Can anyone find
serious to say in the same mail "/and if I say that it is NOT my intent/ (to
insult me)/, *you have to accept that as a fact*/", and "/even when I called
you a 'fifth column'/ [...] */was perfectly appropriate/*". I'm not here to
be insulted, moderate yourself.

     And, frankly, my patience is not infinite.

   I have no doubt on that; actually I find it quite finite -from the first
mails you have used that stuff I wholeheartedly reject-.

*** And yet again, DON'T confuse opinions with insults.


    Reinier : This morning I tried another shock effect, calling you
"amusing". *Should I use even stronger words* to clarify my point?

   Carlos : What is this? Do you even dare to open & publicly menace me with
further insults? This is new. Hope that insulting in this PPI list cannot be
for free. So now, Reinier, just debate within the limits of politeness;
nobody prevents you from debating, simply I won't tolerate that stuff from
you.

*** The "standards"  for politeness are bound to culture. Verry typical that
the most southern Pirate is the one being insulted most easily. Since its
completely inline with his culture. For that verry same reason  (
Differences in culture ) clashes like this are bound to happen.( So, in my
opinion there is no one to blame )
     Just imagine what the result will be when i say " You are verry much
like hitler, because you are so intelligent "  Are you going to be insulted
by that, or are you goint to read it as if its a compliment ?
     From reading this "bitchfight" , wich it is in my opinion, i conclude
that both of you are going to read it as a "insult" instead of a compliment.

Right now, i bet that the two of you  cant even make a proper list of each
others arguments, plus their motivation for it.

So what do you two assholes think right now ?  <-- Deliberate insult ;)

I propose we keep the focus on construction, instead of personal bullshit.
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