[pp.int.general] Reinier & Carlos

[Glenn Kerbein]

Horray for silly flame wars that don't involve other people, but somehow
they do.

Core, you have Carlos's and Reinier's email addresses, why not email
them in private?

Core TX wrote:
>   <aiarakoa at yahoo.es>*** <-- Written by mail sender. Core-TX / Samir Allioui
> 
> Reinier:     1. I don't think a private conversation was appropriate. I
> always talked about the substance - even if you sometimes thought I did not.
> If I say "you are wrong", than I don't mean that I blame you for making a
> mistake, but that I have a different view (wich could be a fact or an
> opinion).
> 
>   Carlos :  And, /of course/, if you make contradictions -like calling me
> /fifthcolumnist/ and PPI /fundamentalist/ at the same time-, or plain
> insults -like /stupid/-, or other defamations -like /radical/-, you would
> just have been /creative/ in your descriptions. Haven't you been? Come on.
> 
> 
> *** Don't confuse opinions with insults. -- Please READ, and conclude that
> there is such a thing as "intention" Even if you two hate each other, you
> still can work together if you are both mature enough. Something i'm
> starting to doubt.
> 
> 
> Reinier:     2. My "denial" is essential. Being insulting or scornful
> requires the *intent* to do so (or at least "dolus eventualis" - I don't
> know the term in English), and if I say that it is NOT my intent, *you have
> to accept that as a fact*.
> 
>    Carlos : That would require me trusting your statement. If you
> /apologize/ in one mail while, in the same mail, continue calling /radicals/
> all those who doesn't give up in demanding our goals -by the way, you
> considered our goals as /esoteric/! (your mail: 4-XII-09, 10:14)-, believe
> me: I don't trust your excuses.
> 
> ***  The apology was made because of a interpretation error. Please be
> rational and see  things in context. Questioning the motive or intentions of
> PPI members is corrosive to our efforts. I cant believe you are not aware of
> this. So please act upon your knowledge.
> 
> Reinier:     Even when I called you a "fifth column" at some time, that was
> about your opinions.
>                A "fifth column" - as you know - is some who works for the
> "ennemy". Which was perfectly appropriate
> 
>   Carlos :  Me, working for the pro-copyright lobby? Your excuses cannot be
> trustable when you continue defamating me again, and again. Can anyone find
> serious to say in the same mail "/and if I say that it is NOT my intent/ (to
> insult me)/, *you have to accept that as a fact*/", and "/even when I called
> you a 'fifth column'/ [...] */was perfectly appropriate/*". I'm not here to
> be insulted, moderate yourself.
> 
>      And, frankly, my patience is not infinite.
> 
>    I have no doubt on that; actually I find it quite finite -from the first
> mails you have used that stuff I wholeheartedly reject-.
> 
> *** And yet again, DON'T confuse opinions with insults.
> 
> 
>     Reinier : This morning I tried another shock effect, calling you
> "amusing". *Should I use even stronger words* to clarify my point?
> 
>    Carlos : What is this? Do you even dare to open & publicly menace me with
> further insults? This is new. Hope that insulting in this PPI list cannot be
> for free. So now, Reinier, just debate within the limits of politeness;
> nobody prevents you from debating, simply I won't tolerate that stuff from
> you.
> 
> *** The "standards"  for politeness are bound to culture. Verry typical that
> the most southern Pirate is the one being insulted most easily. Since its
> completely inline with his culture. For that verry same reason  (
> Differences in culture ) clashes like this are bound to happen.( So, in my
> opinion there is no one to blame )
>      Just imagine what the result will be when i say " You are verry much
> like hitler, because you are so intelligent "  Are you going to be insulted
> by that, or are you goint to read it as if its a compliment ?
>      From reading this "bitchfight" , wich it is in my opinion, i conclude
> that both of you are going to read it as a "insult" instead of a compliment.
> 
> Right now, i bet that the two of you  cant even make a proper list of each
> others arguments, plus their motivation for it.
> 
> So what do you two assholes think right now ?  <-- Deliberate insult ;)
> 
> I propose we keep the focus on construction, instead of personal bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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-- 
Glenn Kerbein
Pirate Party of the United States
"Burn, Hollywood, Burn"