[pp.int.general] Pirate Manifesto: status of internal ballots

[Reinier Bakels]

Calm down! Neither you nor the people who met each other in Berlin and 
Uppsala are in a position to set formal requirements for each other (nor 
reversely, of course!) The end goal is a political movement against threats 
to information freedom (etc.), and to cooperate as much as possible, but not 
beyond. Ok, you force me to be explicit. The three manifesto drafts were 
written just by some of us, because the cooperation was less than pleasant - 
flame wars - what a coincidence. The end result is just not good enough to 
win the "war". Now don't blame me for late comments.I  am prepared to help. 
If the result (yet to be drafted) is not OK, we have schisma in the PP 
movement. Congratulations! But I understand why you are urging me to have my 
draft early: you want to be prepared to block it in Helsinki.

Reinier
>
> - I guess you are going ... not to write a /Manifesto/ ... but to 
> *propose* a new *draft* ... however, if you share the goal agreed by the 
> pirate parties representatives -Samir, Arkadiusz, (then) Andrew, Anton, 
> Ole, etc- of having it ready prior to the Helsinki Conference, you 
> shouldn't have it ready just a couple of days before the Conference, but 
> *_now_*, because (just in case we decide to consider it as an option, 
> regardless of its unilateral, individual nature) I think that we, the 
> pirate parties, would need to study and to vote it together with the 
> current drafts; I cannot speak for the rest of pirate parties, however *I 
> don't see pirate parties* -at least those which may haven't started yet 
> their internal ballot (those which already started it, I guess won't 
> accept to add new options during the ballot)- *voting for your proposal if 
> you introduce it, say, the 26th of January*; as long as you care whether 
> we vote for your proposal ... maybe you're not concerned about it
>
> - as Andrew Norton stated, and it can be checked here
>
> http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto#What
>
> *the Pirate Manifesto can be thought of as a Venn diagram of what we have 
> in common* -what identifies us as an international movement, in the 
> international scope; in the national scope, we are supposed to have that 
> and, later, we can add whatever we want to-; so when you answer to 
> David -when he states that having a joint manifesto is what truly matters- 
> "/why?/" ... well, you show to not have understood at all what was agreed 
> in Berlin in January 2008
>
> - you are not Piraten Partij representative for PPI: Samir Allioui is; 
> besides what anyone may think from your words, Reinier, your opinions are 
> just your individual opinions, not Piraten Partij's; thus, when you say 
> "/If you want to keep NL on board of the PP movement/", it's not Piraten 
> Partij who talks, but just Reinier Bakels
>
> - I don't know if Piraten Partij is close to death -it has 32 members 
> (Samir told me), while, e.g., PIRATA has 61 (and several hundreds of 
> supporters) and we're still alive as a party-; what I know is that Piraten 
> Partij is also still alive, and its signature is going to be decided by 
> its members as a whole in an inner democratic ballot (Samir has confirmed 
> it to me)
>
> - let me follow your /joke/: "/what two people can do in two weeks, three 
> people can do in three weeks/" ... and Reinier Bakels can do it in *six 
> months* -that's the period between the start of the current Pirate 
> Manifesto efforts (beginning of july'08) and the moment in which you 
> started to talk (end of december'08)-; *are you telling us that in six 
> months you were unable to make a single comment, nor to propose 
> amendments* (directly or through Samir)? *It's impossible to believe that*
>
> - I repeat you were not sincere when you talked about the current drafts 
> being formal rather than political; of course those drafts are political, 
> it's simply that you dislike them; well, you can encourage people not to 
> sign any of them, however stick to the truth of their very political 
> nature
>
> - "/is privacy a priority? We could agree to disagree/" // "/ECHR 
> generally is seen as powerful, and appropriate/" // "/if we can not agree 
> on certain issues, the next best thing is to agree only on core items, 
> copyright and patent reform in particular/" // etc; *patents and author's 
> rights aren't the only PPI core issues ... specifically, privacy is* -at 
> least as long as Samir is PPNL representative (Samir said, "/at this time, 
> our view is most similar to that of the Danish Pirate Party/"; Ole said, 
> "/a democratic society needs a transparent state and non-transparent 
> citizens/ [...] /therefore the secrecy of correspondence should encompass 
> all digital communication/"), also including Piraten Partij-
>
> http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Piratenpartij_Nederland
> http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Personal_integrity
>
> *a PPI core issue*; and again you talk just on your own behalf but pretend 
> to make everyone think that you would not only being talking on behalf of 
> Piraten Partij, but on behalf of the whole PPI; entirely false
>
> - in the Manifesto (you can check the above link) we express what we want 
> in the short, middle & long term, because it's not a 2009-2014 EU platform 
> (it's simply not a platform); *are you willing to make us remove our 
> long-term goals from the Pirate Manifesto? Then I foresee much rejection 
> to your proposal*
>
> - you have never got any of the existing drafts and analyzed them 
> properly, saying "/I agree with that, because /[...]", "/I 
> totally/partially disagree with that, because /[...]", "/I agree 
> totally/partially with that though I would reword it this way/ [...]", 
> etc; were you aware that wiki pages have talk pages? e.g.
>
> http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_Draft_C
> http://int.piratenpartei.de/Talk:Pirate_Manifesto_Draft_C
>
> - just a curiosity: who are you replying to with your 03:17 a.m. mail? I 
> mean, as long as you sent the reply to the PPI list but I don't find any 
> mail in PPI list with such contents
>
> Conclussion: within the PPI context, *you speak on behalf of nobody, but 
> you*.
>
>
> 
> Carlos Ayala
> 
> ( Aiarakoa )
>
> 
> Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman
>
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