[pp.int.general] philosophy vs. action

[Carlos Ayala Vargas]

Reinier Bakels wrote:
> For any PP
Absolutely wrong: besides that fact that we are not PP, but a pirate 
party, the most important thing for pirate parties is not what Reinier 
Bakels considers important, but what that party's members do consider.
> imho the most important thing is that "information law" (as a 
> comprehensive term, or whatever you want to call it)
Of course one of PPI issues, though -whether you want it or not- not the 
only one.
> is not "politicised".
Don't understand what do you mean with "/politicised/".
>> government transparency & responsibility; it's a Deutsches Piraten 
>> Partei issue,
> I think it is outright dangerous.
> there is a constant factor of populist anti-system political parties
Oh yes, it's so /dangerous/ to demand government's transparency & 
responsibility ... where is the danger in that?

Piratpartiet, Piraten Partei Deutschland, Pirate Party of the USA, Parti 
Pirate, Partia Piratow, Piraattipuolue, maybe soon also PIRATA ... when 
are you going to accept, Reinier, that it's just your opinion, and that 
most pirate parties have or are going to have that goal within their 
core issues? And you also try to bind all these parties with populism, 
how unfair ...

http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance
> It may be different by country, but I believe that most of our 
> politicians eventually are honest - even if they represent opinions we 
> totally disagree on.
If most Dutch traditional politicians eventually are honest, how lucky 
you are.
> From you comments, I gather that you are already a real Spanish politician
You gather nothing, you just continue with your defamatory attempts 
-again, you make such comparison without no arguments-. Comparing me 
with traditional politicians ... in what? In defending party's inner 
democracy? In defending to make MPs to truly represent the interests of 
their voters? So ridiculous statements from you ...
> In a true debate, the issue is not who is wrong and who is right. It 
> is an exchangeof ideas that may lead to something brillinant that is 
> better than both had in mind initially.
It's a pretty important thing. Maybe all parts are wrong, maybe only 
some parts; people following the debate needs to know which information 
is true and which is false in order to make a proper analysis of that 
information. If you debate about how rainy is the southeastern Spanish 
weather, and nobody counters you, there is a risk of having some people 
believing you, only to come here to Murcia and find sun, sun and more 
sun -because after the debate they believed there were going to find a 
rainy weather-.

When in a debate someone is wrong -or simply makes false statement-, for 
debate's sake, it has to be pointed out; it's too hard to get anything 
brilliant from false and/or wrong statements.
> So far my only conclusion is that we have "realo's" and "fundi's".
And you're wrong: it's not /fundi/ to defend our rights and liberties, 
as it's not /fundi/ to defend myself to keep breathing. Both things are 
essential for me (the first one also for PIRATA).
> Perhaps some political systems need "realo's" and others need 
> "fundi's". Dutch people hate "fundi's", and there is room for 
> different opinions (as you know, we have a tradition of many political 
> parties).
I don't know whether you call me (and PIRATA, as I'm just showing PIRATA 
stances) /fundi/; if it's the case, and as you call us fundi, among 
other reasons, because of defending SC's inner bill of rights, does 
Dutch people hate people who doesn't accept other system that one 
requiring court warrants to break fundamental rights? does Dutch people 
hate people who demand MPs to represent their voters? does Dutch people 
hate people who demand inner democracy in political parties?

Sorry, *I don't believe you* -probably you talk in vain about /Dutch 
people/ as you talked in vain about /lawyers/-. Now you get your fellow 
countrymen involved by talking /on behalf of/ them ... you aren't even 
close to understand how harmful you are with all that defamation and 
discredit to all who don't agree with you.


                                                                                                 
Carlos Ayala
                                                                                                 
( Aiarakoa )

                                                                          
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman

P.S.: The summary of your mail: you state what /is/ most important to 
PPI; you find /dangerous/ to demand transparency and accountability to 
governments; you find most of Dutch MPs /honest/; you /bind/ anyone who 
oppose your thoughts with populism and fundamentalism; you talk again 
/on behalf of/ people who haven't give you permission to -this time, 
/Dutch people/- ... seriously, when will you end with that?