[pp.int.general] purpose of manifesto

[Per von Zweigbergk]

24 jan 2009 kl. 15.51 skrev Carlos Ayala Vargas:

> Just a tiny yet essential correction:
>
> Reinier Bakels wrote:
>>> to know about the ==> PP <== cause, one should rather try here
>>> as we are PPI, not PP.
>> You repeat yourself (for the zillionth time) and *you are wrong*. I  
>> referred here to *any* national party, and most of them are all  
>> called "PP", in various languages.
> If you refer to any national party, you are the wrong one, as it  
> doesn't apply to Spain. In Spain, PP applies to Popular Party, while  
> PIRATA applies to Pirate Party, you can check it here
>
> http://servicio.mir.es/registro-partidos/index.htm
>
> As we in PIRATA have some work countering the attempts (note: I'm  
> not saying here that you are pro-PSOE nor defamating anyone, I'm  
> just explaining why it's so important to PIRATA to use the correct  
> acronyms; and if I've said it a /zillion/ times ... whatever a / 
> zillion/ means ... I'll say it another /zillion/ times if required  
> to avoid the confusion) by some pro-PSOE folks who always refer to  
> our party as /PPirata/, trying to bind us to the Popular Party only  
> to discredit us as a party with our own political personality.
>
> Thus, as not only there is actually a PP which is not PIRATA, but  
> also there is an European Popular Party (European PP) which has  
> nothing to do with PPI, I reject again, and I'll do whenever it is  
> required, to have us called PP. We are not PP; the Spanish party is  
> PIRATA, and the international movement is PPI.

If there were any representatives from the Italian Partito Pirata (I  
don't know if it's alive) they might disagree with you.

In Italy, PPI refers to Partito Popolare Italiano. According to  
Italian Wikipedia, this PPI merged with Democrazia è Libertà – La  
Margherita, DL in 2002, which in turn merged into Partito Democratico,  
PD in 2007. (I'm not sure why they call themselves PD - that's a rude  
word in French. But I digress.)

My point is, it's silly to reject the abbreviation PP because it was  
used by some other organization in some country. Did you know that PPI  
also was used as abbreviation for:
* People for Progress in India - a non-profit organization creating  
employment opportunities in India
* Philips Phonographische Industries - the original name for Philips  
Records
* Phonographic Performance (Ireland) Limited
* Professionals Party of India - An Indian political party registered  
with the Election Commission of India?

In conclusion, Wikipedia is fun, and you can't expect to be able to  
come up with an organization abbreviation of two or three letters that  
does not collide with any other organization internationally.

Anyway, my view:

- The Swedish party is (pp).
- Reiner talked about the start of the Swedish PP movement in his e- 
mail and thus was correct in the usage of the PP abbreviation --  
though we in Sweden actually abbreviate this as (pp) due to long  
standing tradition. Party names are abbreviated with small letters and  
in parenthesis in Sweden, for example, (kd), (m), (fp), (c), (mp),  
(s), (v), (sd)... I don't expect non-Swedish speakers to follow this  
tradition in English texts though, because it's unfamiliar to most  
people.
- The Pirate Parties International organization as in this list is an  
attempt of several national pirate parties to provide a forum for  
mutual understanding an cooperation between different Pirate Parties  
in different countries. This organization is called PPI.
- I don't believe that this PPI is necessarily representative of the  
global pirate movement, but rather representative of the coming  
together of multiple pirate *parties*. The pirate movement is separate  
from PPI - PPI aims to bring PPs together while PPs works politically  
within a country. Part of this work is to have discussions about  
politics shaping the policies of individual PPs.
- If the designation PP is taken in some country already, of course an  
alternate designation must be found for the party in that country to  
avoid confusion.

As such, I think that there is no problem to use the abbreviation PP  
when referring to a single party where that abbreviation is not yet  
used by another party, and I also don't think there's a problem to say  
things like "European PPs" when talking about Pirate Parties in  
general. However, when referring to a specific party, like PIRATA for  
example, everybody on this list should already be aware of the fact  
that the abbreviation PP is already taken in Spain, and therefore to  
say "Spanish PP" would be confusing and even disrespectful if the  
mistake were repeated in specific reference to the Spanish party.

I do however see a problem with talking about the international pirate  
movement as PPI, because I'm sorry, I don't see the international  
pirate movement represented in this organization. What I see is an  
effort to coordinate different parties representing this movement in  
different countries, which in itself is a worthwhile goal, but that is  
not the same as carrying out actual politics. This has to be done by  
national PPs and it is there the actual movement is taking place in  
reality.

To refer the international pirate movement as "PPI" is to inflate the  
importance and scope of this organization. But I also think that "PP  
movement" is bad terminology. I prefer and suggest "pirate movement"  
when talking about the general phenomenon, not about the organization  
behind them.

-- 
Per von Zweigbergk

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