[pp.int.general] purpose of manifesto

[Will Pomes]

All valid points carlos, but aren't you being slightly defensive here?
not to mention that arguing the colloquial usage of some acronym is
something which approaches meaningless-ness.
Anyway, to me, it seems like semantics, to you its a big issue, so
here we will diverge.

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Carlos Ayala Vargas <aiarakoa at yahoo.es> wrote:
> Per von Zweigbergk wrote:
>>
>> If there were any representatives from the Italian Partito Pirata (I don't
>> know if it's alive) they might disagree with you.
>>
>> In Italy, PPI refers to Partito Popolare Italiano. According to Italian
>> Wikipedia, this PPI merged with Democrazia è Libertà – La Margherita, DL in
>> 2002, which in turn merged into Partito Democratico, PD in 2007. (I'm not
>> sure why they call themselves PD - that's a rude word in French. But I
>> digress.)
>
> Well if there were any Partito Pirata representatives, and if they were
> disagreeing with us using PPI acronym, I would feel keen to evaluate an
> acronym change.
>>
>> My point is, it's silly to reject the abbreviation PP because it was used
>> by some other organization in some country.
>
> /Thanks/ for the /silly/ thing. Apart from that, as I've explained in my
> mail -hope you read that part-, we struggle in Spain to avoid any kind of
> binding between Partido Popular and Partido Pirata, and it's quite important
> to us. So we, PIRATA, are not PP, neither we belong to PP International (but
> to PPI; though if the Italian hypothesis you manage happens, probably PIRATA
> would support a change in the acronym).
>>
>> Did you know that PPI also was used as abbreviation for:
>> * People for Progress in India - a non-profit organization creating
>> employment opportunities in India
>> * Philips Phonographische Industries - the original name for Philips
>> Records
>> * Phonographic Performance (Ireland) Limited
>> * Professionals Party of India - An Indian political party registered with
>> the Election Commission of India?
>
> From all those 4 examples, only the last one belongs to a political party
> -apart from the Partido Popolare Italiano-.
>>
>> In conclusion, Wikipedia is fun, and you can't expect to be able to come
>> up with an organization abbreviation of two or three letters that does not
>> collide with any other organization internationally.
>
> Maybe that was the reason for us in Spain to use a six-letter acronym,
> which, by the way, doesn't include /PP/ within.
>>
>> Anyway, my view:
>>
>> - The Swedish party is (pp).
>
> Each pirate party is sovereign for national affairs.
>>
>> - Reiner talked about the start of the Swedish PP movement in his e-mail
>> and thus was correct in the usage of the PP abbreviation -- though we in
>> Sweden actually abbreviate this as (pp) due to long standing tradition.
>> Party names are abbreviated with small letters and in parenthesis in Sweden,
>> for example, (kd), (m), (fp), (c), (mp), (s), (v), (sd)... I don't expect
>> non-Swedish speakers to follow this tradition in English texts though,
>> because it's unfamiliar to most people.
>
> Reinier doesn't talk about PP just as Piratpartiet, but also as the
> international movement, and furthermore about any (most) pirate parties.
>>
>> - The Pirate Parties International organization as in this list is an
>> attempt of several national pirate parties to provide a forum for mutual
>> understanding an cooperation between different Pirate Parties in different
>> countries. This organization is called PPI.
>> - I don't believe that this PPI is necessarily representative of the
>> global pirate movement
>
> Then what does represent the global pirate movement?
>>
>> - If the designation PP is taken in some country already, of course an
>> alternate designation must be found for the party in that country to avoid
>> confusion.
>
> Of course :)
>>
>> As such, I think that there is no problem to use the abbreviation PP when
>> referring to a single party where that abbreviation is not yet used by
>> another party, and I also don't think there's a problem to say things like
>> "European PPs" when talking about Pirate Parties in general.
>
> Disagree. As I said in my former mail -hope you read it-, there already
> exists an European PP: European Popular Party - European Democrats (acronym:
> EPP-ED); check it by yourself
>
> http://www.epp-ed.eu/home/en/default.asp
>>
>> However, when referring to a specific party, like PIRATA for example,
>> everybody on this list should already be aware of the fact that the
>> abbreviation PP is already taken in Spain, and therefore to say "Spanish PP"
>> would be confusing and even disrespectful if the mistake were repeated in
>> specific reference to the Spanish party.
>
> Of course.
>>
>> I do however see a problem with talking about the international pirate
>> movement as PPI, because I'm sorry, I don't see the international pirate
>> movement represented in this organization.
>
> Then again, what does represent the international /pirate movement/?
>>
>> What I see is an effort to coordinate different parties representing this
>> movement in different countries, which in itself is a worthwhile goal, but
>> that is not the same as carrying out actual politics. This has to be done by
>> national PPs and it is there the actual movement is taking place in reality.
>>
>> To refer the international pirate movement as "PPI" is to inflate the
>> importance and scope of this organization. But I also think that "PP
>> movement" is bad terminology. I prefer and suggest "pirate movement" when
>> talking about the general phenomenon, not about the organization behind them
>
> Well, PIRATA is pretty interested in known what is, then, the /pirate
> movement/: whether it has face, eyes, voice, known stances, known
> spokespeople, etc. It would be quite useful to us to clarify certain
> concepts. Regards,
>
>
>
>                     Carlos Ayala
>
>                        ( Aiarakoa )
>
>
>   Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman
>
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