[pp.int.general] purpose of manifesto

[Carlos Ayala Vargas]

Per von Zweigbergk wrote:
> If there were any representatives from the Italian Partito Pirata (I 
> don't know if it's alive) they might disagree with you.
>
> In Italy, PPI refers to Partito Popolare Italiano. According to 
> Italian Wikipedia, this PPI merged with Democrazia è Libertà – La 
> Margherita, DL in 2002, which in turn merged into Partito Democratico, 
> PD in 2007. (I'm not sure why they call themselves PD - that's a rude 
> word in French. But I digress.)
Well if there were any Partito Pirata representatives, and if they were 
disagreeing with us using PPI acronym, I would feel keen to evaluate an 
acronym change.
> My point is, it's silly to reject the abbreviation PP because it was 
> used by some other organization in some country.
/Thanks/ for the /silly/ thing. Apart from that, as I've explained in my 
mail -hope you read that part-, we struggle in Spain to avoid any kind 
of binding between Partido Popular and Partido Pirata, and it's quite 
important to us. So we, PIRATA, are not PP, neither we belong to PP 
International (but to PPI; though if the Italian hypothesis you manage 
happens, probably PIRATA would support a change in the acronym).
> Did you know that PPI also was used as abbreviation for:
> * People for Progress in India - a non-profit organization creating 
> employment opportunities in India
> * Philips Phonographische Industries - the original name for Philips 
> Records
> * Phonographic Performance (Ireland) Limited
> * Professionals Party of India - An Indian political party registered 
> with the Election Commission of India?
 From all those 4 examples, only the last one belongs to a political 
party -apart from the Partido Popolare Italiano-.
> In conclusion, Wikipedia is fun, and you can't expect to be able to 
> come up with an organization abbreviation of two or three letters that 
> does not collide with any other organization internationally.
Maybe that was the reason for us in Spain to use a six-letter acronym, 
which, by the way, doesn't include /PP/ within.
> Anyway, my view:
>
> - The Swedish party is (pp).
Each pirate party is sovereign for national affairs.
> - Reiner talked about the start of the Swedish PP movement in his 
> e-mail and thus was correct in the usage of the PP abbreviation -- 
> though we in Sweden actually abbreviate this as (pp) due to long 
> standing tradition. Party names are abbreviated with small letters and 
> in parenthesis in Sweden, for example, (kd), (m), (fp), (c), (mp), 
> (s), (v), (sd)... I don't expect non-Swedish speakers to follow this 
> tradition in English texts though, because it's unfamiliar to most people.
Reinier doesn't talk about PP just as Piratpartiet, but also as the 
international movement, and furthermore about any (most) pirate parties.
> - The Pirate Parties International organization as in this list is an 
> attempt of several national pirate parties to provide a forum for 
> mutual understanding an cooperation between different Pirate Parties 
> in different countries. This organization is called PPI.
> - I don't believe that this PPI is necessarily representative of the 
> global pirate movement
Then what does represent the global pirate movement?
> - If the designation PP is taken in some country already, of course an 
> alternate designation must be found for the party in that country to 
> avoid confusion.
Of course :)
> As such, I think that there is no problem to use the abbreviation PP 
> when referring to a single party where that abbreviation is not yet 
> used by another party, and I also don't think there's a problem to say 
> things like "European PPs" when talking about Pirate Parties in general.
Disagree. As I said in my former mail -hope you read it-, there already 
exists an European PP: European Popular Party - European Democrats 
(acronym: EPP-ED); check it by yourself

http://www.epp-ed.eu/home/en/default.asp
> However, when referring to a specific party, like PIRATA for example, 
> everybody on this list should already be aware of the fact that the 
> abbreviation PP is already taken in Spain, and therefore to say 
> "Spanish PP" would be confusing and even disrespectful if the mistake 
> were repeated in specific reference to the Spanish party.
Of course.
> I do however see a problem with talking about the international pirate 
> movement as PPI, because I'm sorry, I don't see the international 
> pirate movement represented in this organization.
Then again, what does represent the international /pirate movement/?
> What I see is an effort to coordinate different parties representing 
> this movement in different countries, which in itself is a worthwhile 
> goal, but that is not the same as carrying out actual politics. This 
> has to be done by national PPs and it is there the actual movement is 
> taking place in reality.
>
> To refer the international pirate movement as "PPI" is to inflate the 
> importance and scope of this organization. But I also think that "PP 
> movement" is bad terminology. I prefer and suggest "pirate movement" 
> when talking about the general phenomenon, not about the organization 
> behind them
Well, PIRATA is pretty interested in known what is, then, the /pirate 
movement/: whether it has face, eyes, voice, known stances, known 
spokespeople, etc. It would be quite useful to us to clarify certain 
concepts. Regards,


                                                        
                                            Carlos Ayala
                                                                                                     
( Aiarakoa )

                                                                                
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman