[pp.int.general] Request - help with research
r.bakels at maastrichtuniversity.nl
Tue Jul 7 08:57:48 CEST 2009
> give you my opinion, and a avoid further hazzle. I'm active for the dutch
> pirate party, because of democracy.
> If PP(NL) core issues where not about democracy, i would not even write
> this. And most members, even see democracy as our primary objective.
> Without free information, you can't have a free society.
> So i really don't think this is up to debate.
I think I confused the subject.
Yes, of course PP favours democracy: it uses the democratic system to get
its proposals adopted.
No, I don't think the PP should aim at reforming the democratic system
itself. For the reasons I already gave: 1) I am not sure whether the
democratic system is a problem in all countries (yes, it is on the European
level) 2) countries are (very) different in this respect 3) It is not easy
to devise a better alternative.
To give just one example: in NL we traditionally don't have a referendum
system (unlike e.g. Switzerland). We have a political party (D66) that
particularly promoted referenda. It was not a success. If there are
occasional referenda, the voter participation is often deceptively low. The
system of elected politicians (indirect democracy) has its advantages:1) the
political debate articulates the debate and clarifies the controversy at
hand 2) governments always have to make popular and impopular decisions
(like imposing taxes), and referenda tend to favour popular decisions.
A very bad example is the referendum on the "European Constitution" (aka
Lisbon treaty). I bet than no one really understood the issue. People
believed that the question was: "constitution yes/no", but actually the
question was whether the Nice treaty should be replaced. The real question
is: "what improvements do you want?" The current mood is: "less Europe". I
woukld say: YES, because Europe is a heaven for copyright lobbyist "policy
laundering", NO because the future, especially for yournger people is a
European rather than a strict national identity, and the European Union has
proved essential to improve the situation in many former dictatorships
(Greece, Spain, Portugal), and it is essential to develop Eastern Europe. As
a matter of international solidaity, but also in our very own interest, to
foster political stability.
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:19 AM, <bakel362 at planet.nl> wrote:
> > In The Netherlands, it is very easy to start a political party/
> > movement. If you want to participate in elections, you must pay an
> > amount of money (something like 10000 euro) and you only get it back if
> > you het electred. There is no threshold: to get one (of 150) seats, you
> > need 1/150 votes, which is about 60000 votes.
> > I wonder whether "democracy" should be an explict PP issue. The
> > situation between country widely varies (unlike in "intellectual
> > property") and there are usually no easy solutions.
> > To name just one problem: should PP welcome or reject populist parties
> > that have become so fashionable lately? Incidentally, the Piratpartiet
> > was labeled "populist" itself. Proponents argue that populist parties
> > care for the real needs of real people, unlike the political
> > establishment. Another definition of populist is: luring voters by
> > making unrealistic proposals ("kick all muslims out").
> > Groeten, Grüße, Regards, Cordialement, Hälsningar, Ciao, Saygilar,
> > Üdvözlettel, Pozdrowienia, Kumusta, Adios, Oan't sjen, Ave, Doei,
> > Yassou
> >>>> REINIER B. BAKELS
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