[pp.int.general] Our ideology

Mikko Särelä msarela at cc.hut.fi
Fri Jul 31 12:22:59 CEST 2009

I don't share your view that the pirate party belongs to the left. It 
seems to me rather that the pirate party gathers a group of people, 
liberal and libertarian both from the left and the right. That is, all 
those people who agree on the need for certain civil liberties (such as 
freedom of speech and privacy).

We willingly set aside our differing views on other matters (such as 
economic, social policy, etc.) because civil liberties are the foundations 
on which our western democracies are built - and they are threatened. 

One way, thus, to explain where we are is to use the political compass 
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2 shows the figure). The choices 
PP has made puts it down and encompasses both right and left. 

As a curious note, historically, most parties have gathered both 
libertarian and authoritarian people on the left to one (or several) 
parties and on the right to one (or several) parties. This has scattered 
the power of those people who believe in the basic individual liberties as 
minorities in all the other parties. What I personally hope, is that the 
PP can unite most (or even most) of those who share this non-authoritarian 
mind set. 

I hazard a guess that the above is something common to most people in 
pirate party - that is, it is a shared common part of our individual 
ideologies. And it is already a very big part of the Pirate Party goals 
(again freedom of the speech and privacy). And thus part of the party's 


On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, Alex Foti wrote:
> it is, i believe, a widely shared view that the pirate party belongs
> to both the liberal and the libertarian left, as all freedom of speech
> movements before it. it is by no coincindence that it it sits on the
> left of the european parliament, no?
> ciao, lx
> On 7/30/09, Reinier Bakels <r.bakels at planet.nl> wrote:
> > > Still, I think this can be done - and this _needs_ to be done. Such
> > > openness is a prerequisite for limiting the power of corporate lobbying
> > > (which, I believe, is needed so that we can eventually get to the
> > > copyright reform). It should not be our primary 'populist' goal - as it
> > > does not get so many people worked up about. But it does fall in naturally
> > > with our other goals - and it shows that Pirate Party is not a one trick
> > > pony.
> > >
> >
> > I guess that a very basic means to get more people involved in politics is
> > better communication. No one knows what is happening in Brussels - so
> > European election results effectively are based on national politics. A
> > major theme at the last European elections was: are you in favour or against
> > "more Europe"? That is NOT a decision of the European Parliament, but of the
> > national parliaments. Politicians make a habit to spread lies. In more
> > polite words: the political "truth" is often different from the factual
> > truth. When our Minister of Justice told that in the past years, so that we
> > need less prisons in the future, there is less and less severe crime,
> > right-wing politicians politicised this statement and said that only the
> > police should work harder. For political purposes, the difference between
> > severe crime and feelings of unsafety on the street are deliberately
> > confused. A drunken hooligan is unpleasant, but it is not a severe criminal.
> >
> > Somehow, it is a checken-and-egg  problem. Newspapers and TV networks spend
> > little attention to European themes, so no one knows about them, and no one
> > is interested, so it is is not attractive to make newspaper articles or TV
> > news items on EU politics. Perhaps there should be an (initially subsidised)
> > European TV network - which should have full journalistic freedom, except
> > that it should concentrate on "Brussels" and "Strassbourg".
> >
> > One could learn from populists that they are often very good communicators
> > (even if the means are occasionally questionable, like Berlusconi owning TV
> > netwoirks himself). Wilders, a very dangerous fascist Dutch politican, is a
> > genius in attracting media attention. Of course, PP should distinguish
> > itself from populists in the sense that it spreads *honest* messages.
> >
> > Incidentally, in he aftermath of the EP elections, my (Dutch) newspaper
> > qualified the PP as "populist" from the perception that its sole purpose was
> > to allow youngsters to download "illegal" content for free. Just a way to
> > please spoilt children ...  Needless to say that is a stark simplification
> > of the PP objectives!
> >
> > reinier
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

Mikko Särelä
"It is through exchange that difference becomes a blessing, not a
curse", Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi of Great Britain

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