[pp.int.general] Our ideology

Alex Foti alex.foti at gmail.com
Fri Jul 31 13:00:09 CEST 2009

in europe antiauthoritarian is a codeword for anarchist (viz. greece).
it's true that libertarian in america can be either freemarket right
or antiauthoritarian left, but in europe
libertarian/libertaire/libertario has a leftist tinge and it'd be hard
to prove the contrary. i understand the electoral need for being a
catchall party appealing to all sectors of voters, but political
science does have a certain objectivity and the pirate party currently
sits in Strasbourg on the left of the divide inaugurated by the french
revolution. I guess it'd also be interesting to investigate pirate
parties' positions on the current Great Recession, but let's leave
that for another thread.

ciao, lx

2009/7/31 Mikko Särelä <msarela at cc.hut.fi>:
> I don't share your view that the pirate party belongs to the left. It
> seems to me rather that the pirate party gathers a group of people,
> liberal and libertarian both from the left and the right. That is, all
> those people who agree on the need for certain civil liberties (such as
> freedom of speech and privacy).
> We willingly set aside our differing views on other matters (such as
> economic, social policy, etc.) because civil liberties are the foundations
> on which our western democracies are built - and they are threatened.
> One way, thus, to explain where we are is to use the political compass
> (http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2 shows the figure). The choices
> PP has made puts it down and encompasses both right and left.
> As a curious note, historically, most parties have gathered both
> libertarian and authoritarian people on the left to one (or several)
> parties and on the right to one (or several) parties. This has scattered
> the power of those people who believe in the basic individual liberties as
> minorities in all the other parties. What I personally hope, is that the
> PP can unite most (or even most) of those who share this non-authoritarian
> mind set.
> I hazard a guess that the above is something common to most people in
> pirate party - that is, it is a shared common part of our individual
> ideologies. And it is already a very big part of the Pirate Party goals
> (again freedom of the speech and privacy). And thus part of the party's
> ideology.
> -Mikko
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, Alex Foti wrote:
>> it is, i believe, a widely shared view that the pirate party belongs
>> to both the liberal and the libertarian left, as all freedom of speech
>> movements before it. it is by no coincindence that it it sits on the
>> left of the european parliament, no?
>> ciao, lx
>> On 7/30/09, Reinier Bakels <r.bakels at planet.nl> wrote:
>> > > Still, I think this can be done - and this _needs_ to be done. Such
>> > > openness is a prerequisite for limiting the power of corporate lobbying
>> > > (which, I believe, is needed so that we can eventually get to the
>> > > copyright reform). It should not be our primary 'populist' goal - as it
>> > > does not get so many people worked up about. But it does fall in naturally
>> > > with our other goals - and it shows that Pirate Party is not a one trick
>> > > pony.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I guess that a very basic means to get more people involved in politics is
>> > better communication. No one knows what is happening in Brussels - so
>> > European election results effectively are based on national politics. A
>> > major theme at the last European elections was: are you in favour or against
>> > "more Europe"? That is NOT a decision of the European Parliament, but of the
>> > national parliaments. Politicians make a habit to spread lies. In more
>> > polite words: the political "truth" is often different from the factual
>> > truth. When our Minister of Justice told that in the past years, so that we
>> > need less prisons in the future, there is less and less severe crime,
>> > right-wing politicians politicised this statement and said that only the
>> > police should work harder. For political purposes, the difference between
>> > severe crime and feelings of unsafety on the street are deliberately
>> > confused. A drunken hooligan is unpleasant, but it is not a severe criminal.
>> >
>> > Somehow, it is a checken-and-egg  problem. Newspapers and TV networks spend
>> > little attention to European themes, so no one knows about them, and no one
>> > is interested, so it is is not attractive to make newspaper articles or TV
>> > news items on EU politics. Perhaps there should be an (initially subsidised)
>> > European TV network - which should have full journalistic freedom, except
>> > that it should concentrate on "Brussels" and "Strassbourg".
>> >
>> > One could learn from populists that they are often very good communicators
>> > (even if the means are occasionally questionable, like Berlusconi owning TV
>> > netwoirks himself). Wilders, a very dangerous fascist Dutch politican, is a
>> > genius in attracting media attention. Of course, PP should distinguish
>> > itself from populists in the sense that it spreads *honest* messages.
>> >
>> > Incidentally, in he aftermath of the EP elections, my (Dutch) newspaper
>> > qualified the PP as "populist" from the perception that its sole purpose was
>> > to allow youngsters to download "illegal" content for free. Just a way to
>> > please spoilt children ...  Needless to say that is a stark simplification
>> > of the PP objectives!
>> >
>> > reinier
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________
>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> --
> Mikko Särelä
> "It is through exchange that difference becomes a blessing, not a
> curse", Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi of Great Britain
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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