[pp.int.general] La Quadrature du Net: Amendment 138 dead by lack of courage of the Parliament

Fri Oct 23 11:50:51 CEST 2009

We should contact our Council of the European Union and Members of the
European
Parliament that will be in reconciliation commite in 2 nov. To get their
comments and pressure them to make sure that we will courts involved in
cutting down internet users if they break some laws.

BR,
Blazej
PP POland

2009/10/23 Nicolas Sahlqvist <nicco77 at gmail.com>

> I also have a bad feeling about it and what you say is concerning, but I am
> chasing more extensive arguments. In PPSE's principle 3.3 program (not yet
> translated to English) a quick translation gives us:
> "Pirate Party does not consider the fact that Sweden is a member of the EU,
> but now that we are there we have the right to require it to be democratic.
> The democratic deficit in the EU must eventually be addressed, and the first
> step is to prevent it from being perpetuated by ill-considered
> constitutional. The draft EU constitution that Dutch and French voted no to
> the should not adopted, either in its original form or with cosmetic changes
> such as the Lisbon Treaty as Ireland voted no to."
>
> http://www.piratpartiet.se/principer
>
> On the 26th of April CE populated his blog a month before the EU election
> in Sweden with loads of arguments such as it is a jungle of rules where new
> rules are added on a regular basis making it even more complex, this makes
> the whole thing unreadable and we should not agree or even sign something
> that we can't comprehend. He continues to dismantle the argument that it
> makes EU more democratic by saying the changes are just cosmetic. He also
> describes the case of process of implementing a EU-directive for software
> patents that he worked against as a activist in 2004-2005:
>
> "It has been suggested that the new Lisbon Treaty would give the EU
> Parliament more power because more questions would be taken under the rules
> of "codecision procedure". It is the variant that gives parliament the
> greatest influence. But the software patents issue which I followed was
> already such an issue. And it turned out that Parliament had been extremely
> difficult get their way anyway because the voting rules in the "second
> reading" is designed so that it is almost impossible for Parliament to go
> against the Commission and Council. (Now, it worked this time, but it was
> really a lucky strike.)
>
> It has also been suggested that national parliaments would have more power
> because they must be able to comment after the political agreement reached
> in Council, but before it is formally adopted. But when several national
> parliament wanted to pull the emergency brake on the issue of software
> patents they were told by the EU that a political agreement could not be
> changed and the formal decision just was just a formality. There was not
> even any reason to take the formal decision at a meeting with the correct
> ministers, but the decision on software patents was taken by the Ministers
> of Fisheries. This is how things are done in EU.
>
> So when two of the main arguments for the new constitution / Lisbon Treaty
> proves to be untrue or at least substantially exaggerated, then I think it
> is enough to be skeptical about the rest too."
>
> He also wrote blogs on how the democratic deficit is caused by
> the Parliament listens while the Council just runs them over as they are
> currently doing with the Telecom package Amendment 138 and how corrupt the
> process of electing a EU president since it is a exclusive power elite
> choosing. The process explained in a quote from Henrik Brors (Swedish
> political journalist):
>
> "One thing however is right with Tony Blair, he has for several years been
> part of the Group of Heads of State and Government in Europe that have
> gotten to know each other well. It is only those who have a chance at this
> job."
>
> The last argument is addressing the current situation of the Lisbon
> Treaty (quick translation again where I slightly changed the first sentence
> in order to avoid quoting several other paragraphs):
>
> "If they manage to push through Lisbon the the existing structures will be
> cemented, in the worst case for a long time. The same structures that gave
> us a stronger copyright protection extended periods, IPRED, Data retention
> directive, Acta, Future Group, PNR proposal (Passenger Name Record) and the
> telecoms package. To name a few."
>
>
> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/replikskifte-om-lissabonfordraget/
>
> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/ett-bra-nej-for-europa-igen/
>
> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/eus-demokratiska-underskott-i-praktiken/
> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/att-utse-eus-president/
>
> Phew, that took some time.. We still need to find out details how this will
> affect our issues in practice, who is up for making a analyze of the 272
> pages Lisbon Treaty?
>
> http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/full_text/index_en.htm
>
>
> - Nicolas
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Jeremy Morton <admin at game-point.net>wrote:
>
>> I have baaad feelings about Lisbon passing.  It's going to weaken the
>> power of the member states, and hand more to the European executive, an
>> organization I don't even see the need for.  What a shame our political
>> system allows Labour to cling on to power until it's too late.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jeremy Morton (Jez)
>>
>> Nicolas Sahlqvist wrote:
>>
>>> Does the treaty of Lisbon have any effect on this?
>>>
>>>
>>> - Nicolas
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:22 AM, El Tres <pirat at eltres.de
>>> <mailto:pirat at eltres.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Am 23.10.2009 um 00:16 schrieb Eric Priezkalns
>>>    <eric.priezkalns at pirateparty.org.uk
>>>    <mailto:eric.priezkalns at pirateparty.org.uk>>:
>>>
>>>
>>>        [UK]   A constitution may exist, even if it is unwritten.  Such
>>>        a constitution may be stronger than one written on a piece of
>>>        paper, but where people don't do what the words on the paper say.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Hear, Hear!
>>>
>>>    El Tres
>>>
>>>
>>>    ____________________________________________________
>>>    Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>    pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>    <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>>    http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20091023/9fc38d0e/attachment-0001.htm>